It's Supernatural

Sid: I have as a guest Dr. Howard Morgan a Jewish believer that is red hot for the Messiah. I’m speaking to him at his home in Atlanta, Georgia. We’re highlighting his book “Leaves from the Olive Tree.” It’s based on kingdom perspectives versus humanistic religious perspectives. We’ve been talking about the church started out with great glory, the least Christian, the least Messianic Jew could lay hands on the sick and people would recover. Everything in the Bible we read today took place then. God doesn’t change, one guess who did the changing. Somehow little by little we’ve deviated from the pattern. On yesterday’s broadcast I wanted you to ponder the question I raised, the job of the Jewish believer was to be a light to the nations, and that’s why the Messiah started with the Jew. So the Jewish people could take the word of God to the nations, to the Gentiles. We Jews are called to proselytize all Gentiles to be worshippers of God. However, the job of the Gentile believer is to provoke Jewish people to jealousy, that’s Romans 11:11. What is going to provoke a Jewish believer to jealousy? Is it a congregation that has a Greco-Roman culture, or a congregation that has a Biblical, not rabbinic big difference, a Biblical Judaic culture? Is it a church that has a Passover service like none the world has ever seen where curses are literally broken and the lame walk out of wheelchairs and the blind see and the deaf hear? Is the pastor is talking about the miracles and the exodus, or one that has Easter eggs and bunnies? Which will fulfill your God called destiny better? I want to get into some really amazing things from our Biblical Hebraic roots that most Christians have never even speculated. When I get together with a Jewish believer like Howie Morgan, or many of my other friends we argue. Some of my Gentile Christian friends say to me “Why are you arguing so much?” I said “I don’t know it’s Jewish.” Then of course I read in Howie’s new book about the Beit Midrash. Explain to me what the Beit Midrash is Dr. Howie Morgan.

Dr. Morgan: The Beit Midrash means house of study or investigation. Every synagogue around the world and down through history had a room that in which all the books the commentaries were. The difference we were talking about in previous shows about the church and the Greco-Roman mindset in most churches you’ll hear the pastor give a lecture sermon message. You go home you never have an opportunity to question or dialogue.

Sid: Now if you do question, and actually question as if what he said is wrong what happens to you under the Greco-Roman system, and what would happen under the Hebraic system?

Dr. Morgan: Well in the Greco-Roman system you could get executed.

Sid: (Laughing)

Dr. Morgan: You do not! You do not confront the emperor!  You know you lose your life. So we find people get marked as rebels, we get marked as heretic people in the church down through the century. We talked earlier about the murder, the persecution of those who disagreed with the Caesar mentality in the Christian religion, but in the Jewish world you were encouraged, inspired to argue. We see Jesus arguing with the Pharisees, and the Sadducees, and the scribes and they argue with Him. You know when you read it from our Greco-Roman mindset you think “Oh here’s sweet gentle Jesus and all these bad Pharisees arguing with Him.” Jesus grew up in the synagogue, and in the synagogue there was the Beit Midrash He grew up arguing the scriptures. You know we see Jesus when He was 12. What was He doing? He was arguing the scriptures with the doctors of the law. He was disputing with them and saying “What do you think, and what do you think?” We’ve not been iron sharpening iron. So in the synagogue after the rabbi would speak He would come and they would sit in the Beit Midrash and if they were hungry they would have a sandwich or something to drink. For the next several hours they would open the scriptures together and the commentaries and He would encourage the dispute. He would encourage the argument because iron was sharpening iron. He would be making His talmudim, his disciples, dig into the scriptures and dig into the Hebrew…

Sid: Where did we get the whole idea that you have to someone who’s gone to seminary to teach us?

Dr. Morgan: It’s again how the institution trains its people and then empowers them by giving the ordination papers. In the kingdom the ordination comes from heaven via the anointing, not from an institutional sanction that says “You’ve jumped through our hoops now we’ve indoctrinated you, and then you can be part of our organization and we’ll pay you and give you a pension.” In the kingdom people just get anointings by the Holy Spirit and they begin to function in the Spirit. You know the disciples people challenged them and said “Where did you go to school you’re ignorant unlearned men?” Their answer was “We have been with Jesus.” That’s where the power comes from being with Jesus and not being…stuck in our heads. Again it’s that whole intellectual rationalization of the scripture rather than letting the Holy Spirit reveal Christ to you, and reveal Christ through you. So when do we have… you mentioned in another show about the good church. Well you know here’s the good church, but when does the pastor then say “Okay I’ve preached for an hour to you,” and you know they’ve only heard 10%. Psychological tests prove that people only retain 10% of what they hear. Now let’s go and see what you actually heard today. I’d love to see pastors give their people a test on say Tuesday afternoon and not a multiple choice test, but a real essay test and say “What did pastor preach about on Sunday?” Make them put it in an essay, I’d think pastors would be shocked by how little they actually got in their preaching. It’s a very poor way of teaching. The best way is to demonstrate it, it’s to model it. So what did the rabbi do with his students, why? Because his heart was to raise up disciples not just have church goers, but to really have equipped disciples after the preaching he’d bring those who wanted to with their children and they’d sit around a big table they’d have a gnosh, they’d have some pastrami or whatever, and sit and talk. The rabbi would question and they would question “Well what did you mean by that, and why did you say that?” The hours would just disappear that’s why you need some food, and we encourage people in that chapter in my book they can have a Beit Midrash in their home.

Sid: Yes, but what if they’ve only been a believer only a year?

Dr. Morgan: So what, they’ll start right there. How exciting is that to have your Bible be a believer for one year and have your Bible and then teach people. Maybe you’ve only been a believer 3 months.

Sid: Listen Howie, normally you have to pay your price.

Dr. Morgan: Yeah.

Sid: Earn your stripes.

Dr. Morgan: Hmm. Hmm.

Sid: Before you can be even considered to teach in Sunday school. Yet I can tell you I’ve travelled the world as you do to, and someone that has been a believer for 3 – 4 years in the average church, a good church, could go out and be an apostle in a foreign country. Be so used by God, and walk in the miraculous and plant a hundred churches.

Dr. Morgan: Yes exactly…

Sid: Instead of sitting year after year saying “I’m not being fed I think I’m going to find another church!”

Dr. Morgan: Yeah, and that’s another lie “I’m not being fed.” Well if you’re 3 years old in the Lord, 4 years old don’t you think it’s time you fed yourself?

Sid: (Laughing)

Dr. Morgan: It’s as if we have a teenager who can’t feed himself, or an 8 year old. You know, you and I we raised children as many of our listeners have, you teach your children to feed themselves.

Sid: Let me ask you about this, the mentality the pastors job is to teach our children, is to teach us, is to feed us… that’s the Greco-Roman way, what’s the Biblical Jewish way?

Dr. Morgan: His role is to equip you, and disciple you, and train you to feed yourself. Then you can go and feed others so you can open your home as a new believer. Remember when you and I first got saved we were just telling everybody about Jesus. Thank God…

Sid: Listen, I was involved in starting one of the first Messianic congregations in the United States, a few of us. We knew nothing, I was a year old in the Lord and we saw a move of God’s Spirit… I didn’t know anything. I’m telling you and Jewish people were coming in and it was so exciting. You know why? I was so excited about the Lord, and I didn’t know I couldn’t do anything. If I read it in the Bible it was true.

Dr. Morgan: Right.

Sid: I had to get educated to find out “Well we don’t do this today.”

Dr. Morgan: Right, right. So what happened Sid exactly what we were talking about in previous shows, you were moving in the revelation of the Holy Spirit, the Living Water was flowing out of you and that is what the Kingdom of God is all about. It’s about creating an environment where the Living Water can flow, and then let’s let God teach us rather than being so concerned “Oh if they teach a Bible study they won’t teach doctrine correctly.” I want to have a place where the Holy Spirit is free He’ll sort out the doctrines because if your doctrine is “Jesus come manifest yourself, teach us to love” that’s the best doctrine in the world according to 1^st Corinthians…

Sid: Alright what about the concept the one man, for lack of better words, the one man show. Where did it come from?

Dr. Morgan: It’s that same, the institution, the power, and the politics of one man who…

Sid: Who gives a message every week and once in 2 or 3 months he’ll bring in an outside speaker in, but pretty much he must speak.

Dr. Morgan: Right. So my question to people like that “Are you insecure? Are you territorial? Are you raising up disciples? How are you raising up disciples? Do they every get a chance to preach? Do you take them on the streets preaching? Do you give them an opportunity to preach every night of the week in some environment, somewhere, maybe they won’t preach in the pulpit on Sunday maybe that’s a place you will use, but what are you doing the rest of the time? Are you bringing them up? Are you afraid that someone’s going to think “Oh he’s more anointed than I am, then this guy is going to go off and start a church.” Oh what a terrible thing another church will start. Some more sinners might get saved. I’ve had pastors say to me “Oh we won’t allow somebody to start a church within 2 or 3 miles of our building.” I said…

Sid: Oh look worse than that they’re signing non-compete clauses where for 5 years they can’t start another church. Oi Vey!  I tell you we have to go back to our Jewish roots. We’re out of time.

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah another Jewish woman that is red hot for Jesus her name if Sandy Teplinsky.  She has a legal background; I’m speaking to her at her home in Anaheim, California.  She’s had just come out with a masterful book; it’s simplistic; it’s accurate; it’s historical; it’s spiritual.  And it will get you on the right side of the fence on the dividing line of the world in the last days between the counterfeit church and the real church.  The title of the book “Why Care About Israel?”  Now Sandy, there are many many Christians that read the New Testament; never look at the Old Testament; read the New Testament through filtered glasses not from a Hebraic understanding or even a literal understanding and come up with a conclusion that God is finished with Israel and all the blessings promised to Israel really go to the Church.  And all the curses really go to Israel; they call this replacement theology.  Tell me some of the things that you point out in your book about replacement theology.

Sandra:  You know Sid I’m amazed that wherever I go people still ask me about replacement theology an issue that we’ve been addressing for decades in the church.  Replacement theology was even addressed by Paul, Apostle Paul in Romans 9 through 11.  And you know it is so strategic by the spirit that he addresses Israel’s role, visa-vie the church, and affirms God’s continuing covenant with Israel, visa-vie the church, in Roman’s 9 to 11 because those chapters of scripture are couched in the context of God’s love; His everlasting love and the resulting call to sacrificial services on account of His everlasting love.  And to be honest with you that’s my heartbeat.  I wrote this book out a deep desire to see my Christian brothers and sisters to come into dimensions of God’s love that they can only experience when they comprehend His heart for Israel.  And I believe that was the passion of Paul.  Now as we know when Paul wrote the letter to the Romans there weren’t any chapter breaks. Chapter 8 flowed right into chapter 9. Chapter 8 talks about God’s love that nothing could thwart His love from Heaven flowing to the sold out believer.  And that nothing can separate us from that love.  Immediately after that He reminds the church in Rome that God has not forsaken His people Israel.  And He talks about how the Christian or Gentile Church is called to treat Israel and He maintains that distinction. If the church had replaced Israel there would be no reason for Him to say for example in Roman’s 11:25 “I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery so that you may not be conceited that Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.” Then He goes on to more about Israel.  And isn’t it amazing Sid that the very thing that the Apostle warns us by inspiration of Holy Spirit not to be ignorant about is the very thing that to this day much of the church is ignorant of adhering to this doctrine of replacement theology.  And if we continue on in Paul’s treatise in Romans 9-11 of God’s heart for Israel he concludes that.  He concludes Romans 11 by talking of the depth and riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God Almighty.  And attributes glory to God for ever and ever and the cosmos will shout forever for God’s glory as He restores Jew and Gentile together in the faith of one new humanity.  And then right after that in chapter 12; and again remember there weren’t chapters this was just one letter to the Roman church.  Because of this Paul uses the word “Therefore” and of course when we see the word therefore, we need to ask why is it there for?

Sid: My friend Dr. Derek Prince he always used to say that.

Sandra:  Yeah. He did and he’s watching it from the other end and cheering us on I’m sure.

Sid:  And boy did he have a Jewish heart.

Sandra:  He sure did.  Therefore Paul writes he says “In view of God’s mercy” and what he’s means “In view of God’s mercy towards the Gentles.”  The Gentiles are to offer their bodies as living sacrifices holy and pleasing to God as their spiritual act of worship.  Now there is another application to that scripture; but I’m just talking about its fundamental literal application.  Its fundamental literal application is a call to the Gentile Church to consider that in all of what the Jewish people; in view of what all the Jewish people have done even being hardened in part so that the Gentles can come into the fullness of salvation.  In view of all that the Christian Church will be called to offer their bodies as living sacrifices, reasonable worship.  Not even extraordinary worship but reasonable worship.  Now what will that look like?  Increasingly Sid I think that will look like laying our lives down for the Lord Jesus Christ and for His people.  For Corrie Ten Boon’s family loving the Jews and blessing the sons Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not mean material prosperity; it didn’t mean they built a mega-church. It didn’t mean a TV Show.  It meant that they all except for Corrie lost their lives in a concentration camp because they blessed Israel and they opened their homes to Jews during Holocaust who had no place to hide.  Now did they know what they were getting into when they did this?  Indeed they did. Corrie’s father had said from the start that “Losing their lives for the Jews would be the greatest honor that could come to my family.”  And that is what ultimately what I believe the church will be called upon to do.  Now that’s not any different than what the Jewish people have been doing in a sense.  We have been the world’s scapegoat for a Millennia.  We have acted and again we just don’t have time to get into it but I go into in much more detail in my book.  As intercessory priests as a nation of priests;.  Of course the church is a kingdom of priests but Israel remains a nation of priests mediating between heaven and earth taking blow after blow century after century from the devil serving God’s purpose.  Meanwhile believers from the nations are coming into fullness of salvation; but we have laid our lives down for the sake of God’s purposes in a sense from Millennia.  And so too reciprocally will Gentile Christians be called to do the same.  But the sacrifice will be divinely surprising because…

Sid: How would Ruth tie in with what you’re saying right now?

Sandra: Well Ruth shines as an example of one who laid her life down; left her comfortable; left her foreign gods; left her community of faith.  Identified with the people of Israel; became inextricably intertwined in love relationship with a Jewish woman Naomi.  Ruth is a non-Jewish woman joined herself with the commonwealth of Israel and through that relationship of Ruth and Naomi, Obed was birthed as Naomi introduced Ruth to Boaz her near kinsman redeemer.  Boaz…

Sid: But look at the blessing that Ruth would have lost if she would have just gone back to her own people rather than teaming up with a Jew.

Sandra:  Ruth and Naomi together prepared the way for the first coming of the Messiah.  And a Ruth company and a Naomi company of believers, Jews and Gentiles, will together help prepare the way for the Messiah’s second coming.

Sid: Your listening to Sandy Teplinsky and I’m interviewing her on her latest book “Why Care About Israel?” A close personal friend of mine Dr. Michael Brown wrote the forward of the book and let me read this to you.  “As one who carried a strong burden for the salvation of the Jewish people for more than 3 decades I can tell you that my own heart was broken afresh as I read.”  Sandy, how did you even deal with these facts of the history of the “Christian Church” being so anti-Jewish that you write about in your book?

Sandra:  Well, as you know mostly I quote Christians describing their own history. Because I would rather that my readers most of whom are not Jewish hear these facts and hear these confessions from non-Jewish believers, but it’s very hard.  You know my own personal relationship with the Lord is what my journey through these very tough issues is what really been the impetus for birthing the book. And I also hold the future before my eyes Sid and even though there is sacrifice on all of our parts involved.  And even as we spoke a moment ago Gentle Christian’s will be called upon to sacrifice for Israel God is in it. Gentles blessing Israel releases the blessing of Israel.  And ultimately, the blessing of Israel is more of the Blesser Himself.  What is it that the church is crying out for worldwide. “More of God; more of Holy Spirit; More of Jesus.”  Bless Israel and you will get more of God the Blesser Himself.

Sid:  We’re out of time.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah but the truth of the matter is there are many of you that want to be red hot for the Messiah but these little foxes that are getting in your way.  And I know the name of the major obstacle that is getting in your way from getting you healed.  From having intimacy with God; from not being judged and it’s a subject called “The Fear of the Lord.”  And that’s why I have on the telephone the pastor of Canton Christian Fellowship in Canton, Ohio Pastor Michael Cameneti.  He’s just written a brand new book and the title is “The Missing Ingredient to Success.”  Explain to us what the fear of the Lord is Michael.

Michael:  Well, the fear of the Lord is of course the Bible gives us some definitions; so I’ll tell you one.  In Proverbs chapter 8 verse 13 the Bible says “The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride, arrogancy; the evil way, the forward mouth do I hate.”  So we can say it this way the fear of the Lord is dislike or disapprove of whatever God dislikes or whatever God disapproves of.  And so we could go through scripture after scripture the Bible talks about “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; the beginning of knowledge.”  But I found a definition Sid because the subject of the fear of the Lord or the fear of God is even found in the New Testament.  So it’s not an Old Testament thing; so I was looking the in Vines Expository dictionary of Old Testament words. And where is what the Bible says about the fear of the Lord.  I think that this is a definition that will help people. “The fear of the Lord is not a mere fear of His power and of His righteous retribution but it is a wholesome dread of displeasing Him.”  Sid if I could say anything to the people that are listening to the program; if you want to fear God.  If you want to understand what the fear of the Lord is it’s simply having a wholesome dread within all of us that I don’t want to displease God.  So at that I’m going to do everything I can within my spiritual ability to serve the Lord and to please Him in everything that I do.  That is what the fear of the Lord is.

Sid: Your book was written to get this ingrained into our heart.  How can we when we know better yet we keep gossiping; we keep doing things that the world is doing, and we know better but it just keeps going on.  How do we stop it?

Michael:  Well, I believe the only way to stop it; I mean I think we can probably say there’s 15 ways.  But I think the one thing Ecclesiastes chapter 12:13 says “The conclusion of the whole matter.”  I mean after the book of Proverbs is written Solomon writes Ecclesiastes and he says “The conclusion of the whole matter is you must fear God.”   And I don’t think Christians really understand what the fear of the Lord is nor how to do it. Really what the fear is if you break it down into a Christian’s life is it’s referencing God all day. So in other words if I’m at work because people that are listening to this today I’m sure they deal with this at work.  I worked in the world before I became a pastor so I understand this people telling dirty jokes; people cussing and doing things that I don’t really want to be associated with that but how so you get out of that.  I mean hear they are telling you a dirty joke and you can’t stop them.  So what you have to do as a Christian is you have to have a monitor in your life.  Proverb’s talks about guarding your heart. It even talks about it in the New Testament about guarding your heart or guarding your mind. What you have to do is you have to put a guard on it.  And how you do that is with the Bible with the Word of God. I think most Christians forget about the fact that the Bible says to renew your mind to the word.  And the more that we get into the word I don’t have to be a Bible quoter and tote my Bible to work every day to have the word on my mind and to have the word up in my heart.  And I don’t have to quote it to other people. I can just be thinking about it and quoting it my own heart.  This will keep us in the fear of the Lord.

Sid: You talk in your book about practicing the presence of God; of being… explain that a little bit.

Michael:  Well, practicing the presence of God I believe I got the privilege in my personal life to be around some great men and woman of God.  You know Brother Hagin was one of them and we talked about his prophecy this week.  I got to be around some other men and woman that are even still alive today I liked watching what they do in their life.  And what I’ve noticed what they do is they always are acknowledging God.  In other words if you’re sitting down and talking to them every so often they’ll say “Praise the Lord.”  They’re acknowledging God in them.  As a believer we’re spirit, soul and body. We have God living in the inside of us according to the Word.  He comes by the Holy Spirit and He dwells inside of us.  So how I practice the presence of God is I begin to always everywhere I go everything that I do I think about God.  I think about His presence; I reference Him.  And so what happens in doing that is I carry the presence of God.  I’m sure that you’ve heard of Smith Wigglesworth.

Sid: Of course.

Michael:  I’m sure people have told stories about him.  And Smith Wigglesworth was riding on a train and they have different stories I have heard different things about him.  But one of the things that I read about him that was written by his son-in-law so I think it’s pretty accurate.  Is that a man come up to him and fell to his knees and Smith was not… he was on a train and he was not preaching and the man began to confess that he was a sinner.  And he said that the presence of God on this man convicted him so much that it made him you know fall on his knees and want to repent to God. Well maybe not everything’s going to happen in that sense, and I don’t want every person to think that.  But I believe one of our challenges is keeping our thoughts fixed on God. And the Bible talks about this in Colossian’s chapter 3.  That we’re to think on things above; that we’re to put out minds on Him. Roman’s chapter 12 talks about renewing our mind and keeping our mind on Him.  I believe one of the ways that we reference God is that we have to clean our thought life up.  And I heard a minister minister one time and called it stinking thinking. And a lot of times you know we’re doing the Christian thing and we’re going to church and maybe we’re saying “Praise the Lord” when we need to and maybe even worshiping God in the church service. But our thought life Sid this is where most of us either rise up and be the Christian that God wants us to be or we fall.  It’s because of what is going on in our mind. And I believe if you just learn how to keep the word; I started practicing this years ago working in a secular job.  Where I would bring a scripture or two on a card to work and I’d look at them every so often and I’d memorize those scriptures and I’d think about them all day and it kept me in the presence of God referencing God and practicing His presence wherever I was at.

Sid: Let me ask you a question, we were talking earlier about the biggy “The fear of the Lord.”  What happens when we do not reference the Lord; when we do not fear God?

Michael: When we don’t fear God and I have this in a chapter in the book.  And what happens is according to the word.  I mean I went into scripture after scripture where it talks about dishonesty.  Where that becomes something; you know negative results of not fearing the Lord is we could be dishonest without even thinking about it.  We live in a life of flattery which I have a couple pages on that where flattery begins where you know it’s perverted praise. It’s where you’re saying things that are not true and it’s prevalent in the society today.  We get desensitized to sin.

Sid: Now that’s a biggy, because once you’re desensitized to sin you can’t repent. And if you can’t repent you’re in big trouble.

Michael:  Well, that’s where we have to believe the Lord. I believe that someone especially who’s a Christian Sid this book… not that we’re… I want to see everyone that we can be brought to the Lord that doesn’t know Him.  But to a believer and I minister mainly to believers; we have to watch out.  I don’t think people know this and I don’t think that they’ve ever equated it in the world of God. But there’s a guy by the name of Lot in the Bible and we can read about him in 2^nd Peter chapter 1.  And Lot the bible basically says that Lot was warned down because of what he saw and what he heard.  And I think that we as believer’s we have to monitor what we see and what we hear.  Because we live in a society where we’re seeing things all the time on our TV and we’re hearing things all the time in what we listen through radio or whatever it might be.  If we don’t watch and we don’t monitor those areas they will cause us to not have that conviction about sin that we once had.  And so in the book we talk about that and in the  book we talk about how our prayer are not going to be answered when we don’t fear God.  In the Bible there are some scriptures about that unanswered prayer happens when we don’t fear the Lord. So many different things happen.  I mean people can either lose their healing or not be healed because they’re not living right.  They’re not living the way that the Lord wants them.  Now He’s not talking; God is never telling us to be perfect because if we’re going to be perfect then we’re going to be exactly like Jesus was.  He came so we could be like Him; he paid the penalty for sin but He knew that we were going to have areas in our life where we missed it. That’s why the blood of Jesus is so important.  So a believer needs to understand that if I don’t fear God sin is going to be an issue in my life.  And Sid I can honestly tell you this I’ve watched believers over the years I’ve been pastoring now this church for 16 years.  I have seen Christian’s who love the Lord and are on fire and 5 years later in their life with God they’re now back into the same sin that they were in before they were saved and even worse.

Sid: Now we have people listening to us right now and they’re saying “That is me.”  If they read your book and if they do what your book teaches will they get that fire back?

Michael: I believe they will Sid. And one of the reasons and we haven’t talked a whole lot about this but we have a chapter in our book about it.  If you start to recognize that this life is more than just living on this earth. It’s more than just I got born on the earth; I go to school, I go to college.  I get married I have kids; it’s more than that.  We’re here for a purpose and it’s divine and it’s a purpose that’s God. And if we can understand that and we can understand that we begin to fear God and understand this that the judgment is for the believer.  There’s a great white throne judgment that’s for the unbeliever.  But I’m going to stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Sid: And we don’t hear much about that; what we hear is “Our sins are forgiven and that we’re going to Heaven.” But what we don’t hear is the judgment seat of Messiah.

Michael:  We don’t and there’s a parable that Jesus talks about and it’s not about the judgment seat of Christ per say but it’s about a great suppers.  It’s in the Bible and I don’t believe that it’s dealing with the marriage supper of the Lamb because at the end of the parable he says go out and bring in the lame, the maim, the blind.  We don’t have those in Heaven I believer that it’s a parable about earth.  And if you remember the parable it’s in Luke’s Gospel Sid there are reasons why people couldn’t come to the supper.  The supper is the representation of the Bible; it’s a representation of the Word.  Well, most of us find that at church; we also can find that home, we can listen to programs like this.  We can listen to tapes and all that is wonderful but nothing replaces you getting into church.

Sid: Listen Michael I think that many of us need a jolt.

Sid:  I have on the telephone Kevin Turner caught up with him just outside of his base in Sudan, Africa.  He is President of Strategic World Impact.  He works in 3 areas: war zones, disaster areas, and area’s Christians are being persecuted in.  He wrote an article and that’s why I called him and his article is called “Why Isn’t the American Church Growing?”  Kevin “Why isn’t… I mean when we see other parts of the world that it’s growing so fast that we can’t keep track of the number of people that are being saved and radically discipled, but here in America the Church really isn’t growing.  Why?

Kevin:  Well, in fact statistic that might have stoned people that I speak in churches all over the United States and I ask people this one question.  “What is largest Christian country in the world?”  And of course a lot of people say “The United States” or some people will say like “Brazil” or whatever.  The largest according to numbers right now the country with the largest amount of Christians in it is Communist China.

Sid: Hm.

Kevin:   The largest Christian nation in the world is Communist China where the church is illegal, where preaching is restricted and you can’t hear legally the gospel until you are at the age of 18. Then they have the largest population of Christians in the world.  And the reason that I believe as I have world in almost 100 nations and here’s what I’ve seen over and over again “Comfort confuses; calamity clarifies.”  She’s a perfect teacher; when calamity strikes we’re no longer concerned about the mortgage; we’re no longer concerned about the lawn care; we’re instantly absorbed with one important thing and that’s life.  And it teaches us and there’s another principal that I use and I’m always preaching and it’s this that “Persecution purifies and prosperity often pollutes.”

Sid: Well, would you define 21^st century Christianity as polluted?

Kevin:  Absolutely; its hot tub religion at its best.  When Christian’s speak of their blessings in America they point to things.  They say “Look how God has blessed me I have this; I have this I got this boat and got this lake home.” And this whole thing of having heaven now verses you know… There were 2 young men who started one of the largest mission revolutions that we had seen since the disciples.  There were 2 young Moravian men; they were with a man named Count Zinzendorf in northern Germany.  They’d experienced a massive revival; God had so touched and quickened their hearts.  These 2 young men became aware that in the West Indies, which would be modern day Jamaica, that there were 5,000 black slaves on an Island that were owned by a godless man who said publicly “No Christian, no man of God will ever step foot on my island and pervert the mind of my slaves with this foolish Christianity.”  When these two young men heard that they were cut to the core. They prayed; committed themselves and did the unthinkable.  There was no way that they could access that island accept one way.    They sold themselves into slavery simply to be a love slave for Jesus.  The man was such a miser that they actually had to use the money from the sale of their bodies to pay their ship fare to get there.

Sid: Hm.

Kevin:  Within 20 years this group of Moravians’ had sent out more missionaries than all of Christendom before that time. When we come to the place of utter resignation; where we lay down all our hopes, dreams and ambitions and just say “Jesus You’re the Lord take me where You want me to go.”  That’s when you’re ready for a revolution of love.

Sid: And you know what really clarifies your theology here in America we strain a gnat and swallow a camel.  And argue about different jots and tittles of theology.   But where the rubber meets the road is what you’re talking about.

Kevin:   It’s simply living for Jesus; it becomes more than just some pie in the sky theology and believe me I study the word of God.  I have an 11,000 volume library.  I love to read; I study theology and to study theology is to know God.  But when our aim becomes simply knowledge rather than to know Him it is when we run askew.  And that’s why we have swivel-chair theologians in America sitting in Ivory towers handing out edicts to the people down below.  And we’re producing cookie cutter Christian’s that have never had an experience with Christ.  This is the reason why I believe with all my heart that the Church isn’t growing because they have no raison de vivre, they have no reason for living. My passionate heart cry is that the church once again would say “Jesus I sell myself to be your love slave; I give you my life.  The man who discipled me Leonard Ravenhill said this he said “Kevin, you lay your life down on the altar and  let God burn you up” and he said “He’ll do more with the ashes than with your life than you could if you possessed the whole thing.”

Sid: Kevin, what will it take for our version here in the west to change?

Kevin:  Well, once again to quote Leonard Ravenhill he said “In America we will either have Pentecost or prison camps.” And then he said “Or perhaps we’ll end up having Pentecost in the prison camp.”  I believe that Jesus loves America so much that He’ll let us suffer persecution.  I believe He loves us so much that He will take us through the fire.  I tell people all the time remember when the 3 Hebrew children were thrown into the fire it’s then that the pagan ungodly world looked in and said “Hey who’s the 4^th man?”  If we want to see Jesus revealed to the world; then we would be willing to go through the fire and not around it.  And this is how we become Jesus with skin on; this is how we… you know people talk in theology that “Jesus is the propitiation for our sins.”  In other words, He was that thing which took away the anger of God. And His cross became that propitiation for us.  Our cross; our cross is for propagation; it’s to get out; it’s to lay your life down and people know that Jesus is alive and well and He rose again from the dead.  This – makes – my – heart – leap!

Sid: Obviously persecution could end up being a two edge sword; a blessing as well as persecution.  But what about someone that says I want to be like Kevin but there’s no persecution going on in this country and I don’t want to be just be persecuted to be persecuted.  How do I get on fire like him?

Kevin:  Well to be honest with you I hate to use the term key because I think that everything has been unlocked through Jesus . If there’s anything that I would say to living the Christian life it’s continuing dwelling in brokenness and repentance…

Sid: Wait a second; how can you be broken and repentant when you have everything that your heart desires that’s purchased with money?  When we’re living in this culture? I turn on TV, I see homosexuality in my face.  I see sex outside of marriage in my face; I see abortion, woman’s rights they call it, what about the child’s rights, in my face?  We see it so much I’m wondering if we’re not growing so used to it and saying “This is just the way it is?”  How’s it going to change?

Kevin:  I see the cross; I see that to a world that mocks God and raises their fist in utter defiance toward Him I see the cross of Jesus.  And in the morning when I wake up I look in the mirror.  And you know what?  I realize that what I’m capable of without Jesus and it breaks me.  You know there’s an old hymn that says “Follow to the fountain Lord I fly, wash me Savior must I die.” Renewal is simply this; realizing who you are without Jesus and realizing what you’ve become in Him and that breaks me.  Because when I realize that when God left the glory of heaven.  Psalms 113 nails it for me; it’s a testimony of my life.  “Whose like the Lord our God who looks down upon the poor and needy and He lifts them out of the ash heap and the dung hill and He sets them at a table with princes; the princes of His people.”  If God could literally, leave heaven and think of this God had one Son and He buried Him on the mission field.  One Son and He buried Him on the mission field. (Crying) And oh, that God would just apprehend us with His Spirit of brokenness and once again we’d rend our hearts and not our garments.

Sid: Is that how we should pray for the Spirit of Brokenness?  How should we pray Kevin? 

Kevin:    I just say “Read the word and see what He’s done for you and if that doesn’t break you I don’t know that anything will.” A good old fashion baptism of repentance is what the church needs.  We need to repent of our big churches; and I’m not saying that to have a large church is wrong.  What I’m saying is to focus on that is wrong.  I’m not saying that to have money is wrong; it takes money to live here in Africa. I’m not saying that those things are wrong in and of themselves. I’m saying that anything that takes your focus off the Lamb of God becomes sin.  Anything!

Sid: I have to believe here in the west idolatry is the big sin.

Kevin:  Yes it is it’s the golden cow of materialism.  We’ve fallen down at the altar of materialism and we’ve worshiped and we’ve forsaken the God of Israel and it grieves me.  And I’ll tell you what grieves me most is when I see it in my own heart. (Crying) You know what’s amazing?  We have these huge beautiful buildings with perfect sound systems; the mood lighting; the carpeted aisles and yet I meet God in a mud hut somewhere in Afghanistan where a few people who used to be Muslim’s now call on the Name of Jesus and they bury their face in the dirt because the glory of God comes down. (Crying)

Sid: Kevin we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: I’ve got a Jewish man on the line and I have a Jewish woman right opposite me and I’m Jewish maybe the whole world’s Jewish who knows.  Her name is Janie DuVall she’s producer of Messianic Vision and she has been talking non-stop about a diet called “The Makers Diet.”  I said “Janie, there are so many diets out there and you’ve been on all of them. You have, I have you that are listening to me you have” but she’s been on this and she says it’s the first one making a difference.  Janie, what you told me is that he got like the best of all of them in this.

Janie: It takes everything because you have the all-vegetable diet and there’s a truth to that but it doesn’t have everything it’s like.  And there’s a truth to the Atkin’s as far we need fats but it’s the wrong fats.  But he takes everything and it all makes sense.  When I read that book I realized why all the people around me were sick.  The other day I was in a doctor’s office and saw a 2 ½ year old little girl who was about to get her tonsils out and she’s having all this pain in her ears.  And I wanted to… and the mother left and I wanted to run out and say “It’s what the child’s been eating you’re giving her pasteurized milk” which I didn’t realize all the harmful effects until I read his book.  People are sick, teenagers are who are in rebellion.  Now I understand the way the world is today but a lot of it is from the food that they’re eating.

Sid: Okay, let me introduce you to Dr. Jordan Rubin I’m speaking to him at his office at West Palm Beach, Florida.  Jordan on yesterday’s broadcast we found out that you were headed quickly short of a miracle from God to death.  You had Crone’s disease; you had one of the worst cases and you were literally starving to death. You went down to I saw your picture before and after and that’s amazing transition that occurred.  But your book is called “The Maker’s Diet.”  Tell me some of the things you learned from the Bible form the Maker’s Diet.”

Jordan:  When I grabbed the Bible and looked at it with really new eyes and realized that God has a plan for us and the Bible is to our bodies what that book that we get in our glove box to our new automobile is. It’s the manufacturers manual; and what I found when I read the Bible was that God made promises to the people of Israel that went something like this. “If you follow my commandments and you listen to what I’m saying and you follow Me, I will put none of the diseases upon you that I have put upon the Egyptians for I am the Lord that heals you.”  And what I realized was that people in Egypt 4,000 years ago they had the best medicine; the best culture and the  best technology but they did things in opposition to God’s word and they suffered illness.  They had all the same problems that we have today. And what I realized in my own life was that I have inherited the promises and curses rather of Egypt rather than the promises of God. I found a way to eat and a way to live and took God’s plan and packaged it in a modern day program applicable program.  And you know what I agree with Janie this plan has the best of the best in it.  Why, because I took it from the greatest source.  And what I like to say is isn’t it time that we got a prescription from the great physician.  Instead of the person that we’re going to with a white coat that gives us a pill so that we can easily get rid of what’s ailing us.  Rather than us working out our salvation with fear and trembling living a life in obedience and discipline to our Creator. And that’s what “The Makers Diet” is all about it’s not easy but if you follow it the results are well worth any sacrifice.

Sid: Actually I was talking to Janie about that and I was saying to Janie “I cannot be on a diet that has so many things in it.”  And her comment to me was “Do it as well as you can and you’ll be way ahead.” What do you think about that doctor?

Jordan:  Well, Sid I agree in fact what you shared with me off the air about some of the things you’re eating now I would not say that that’s not on “The Maker’s Diet.”  The Maker’s Diet is really about eating what God created for food and eating food that’s healthy for the body; so we’re talking about quality.  Now if you’re at a restaurant you have certain…

Sid: You see as I told you as I met you in person I eat most of my meals in restaurants.

Jordan: And a lot of us do but the point is that there are choices and you can always do better if you have the ideal plan in mind.  And what my point is that we’re not trying to be perfect; no one can be perfect.  I’m not perfect by my diet by any stretch.  But what I do is I make it a priority.  I understand that what I eat, how I live and how I practice hygiene all the areas of health that are important it doesn’t just affect me it affects others.  And Sid we want you on the air proclaiming the good news for a long time; we want you to have long life and abundant life.  And the way you do it is by following in obedience to God’s plan for your life.  And just as we strive to live a moral and ethical life in accordance with the scriptures.  We are not perfect but the model of perfection has been lived out in our Messiah Yeshua.  And our goal on earth is to emulate that but we do deviate from that but it doesn’t change perfection and if were not… we get what we strive for.  And if you look at “The Maker’s Diet” and say “This is what I want to move towards.”  And so many people say “I can’t do it because of this; I don’t have the money; I don’t have the time; I don’t have the discipline.”  There’s a lot of people that are looking for an excuse to stay the way that they are. But I’ll tell you right now that you can’t just skate along in life abusing your body, which by the way is referred to as the Temple of God by God’s only Son.  You can’t do that your entire life and not pay the consequences.

Sid: One of the things that concerning me a lot is that people because of medical science are living really longer than ever but they’re quality of life.  Who would want to be old and live like?

Jordan:  I can’t agree with you more on that statement because I had two grandmothers.  I still have one but one grandmother despite having cancer in her mid-seventies followed this health plan is still alive at 82.  My other grandmother despite our best efforts would not follow a health plan and a healthy lifestyle and she… not only did she died at age 77. but her last 7 years she lived with pain, dementia, Parkinson’s disease not knowing who we were and being in assisted living in a nursing home; just a miserable existence.  And in the Bible Moses died at 120 his eyes did not grow dim; Joshua died at 110. God used them weeks before they died instead of getting older and more feeble I believe that they became more wise and added more to society.  That’s what I want to see today and that’s what God is doing. You know what it’s not about me it’s not about my story.  God is on a mission to change the health of His people one life at a time.  All I’m doing is getting onboard with His mission. And boy it’s an exciting one because people eyes are being opened.  We are finally desperate enough to make health and our bodies a priority.

Sid: You know as I read your book you have a lot of things in there that I’ve never even thought about. But one of the things that I wanted to bring up is the Bible talks about not having pork products and being Jewish I was raised not having pork products. But then as I got a little older and got on my own and especially the Jewish major meal Chinese Food.

Jordan:  (Laughing)

Sid: I went into it but I was always told that that was because in the Bible days there was trichinosis and things like that but today we don’t have that and so there for pork is okay to eat.  But that’s not what you say.

Jordan:  Well it’s interesting that a few chapters after  God handed down the dietary laws through Moses which talks about not eating certain animals they’re unclean either detestable; a few chapters later he talks about a man should not lie with another man as he lies with a woman.  He uses the same word detestable and unclean in that chapter that He uses when He talks about eating pork and shellfish and other unclean meat.

Sid: Hm.

Jordan: There is a scientific reason behind it which I’d love to share in the future but more than anything God is the same yesterday, today and forever.  These are not kosher laws by the way even though the term kosher means the way that you should go and it is a good terminology this is God’s plan.  Everything in the Bible when Science bothers to study it they prove exactly what God said.  And when it comes to easting meet clean and unclean I’ll tell you pork is anything but more healthy than it used to be.  The pig didn’t change, the pigs anatomy didn’t change and we certainly been redeemed by the blood of Yeshua; we are born again into His family.  But that didn’t change our physical body and God did not make a mistake 4000 years ago.  In fact the dietary laws even predate Moses when Noah was on the earth he could delineate between clean and unclean when they were bringing animals into the ark.  I love talking about this topic and when people hear it I really believe it resonates with their spirit and we’re seeing some big changes.    

Sid: Tell me briefly what is “The Maker’s Diet.”

Jordan:  “The Maker’s Diet” is a 40 health experience that changes people’s lives by following a plan; not a diet but a plan based on the Bible history and science and goes into every area of our health.  Physical health, mental health, emotional health and of course spiritual health.  And when you follow this for 40 days you instill habits into your life, changes into your life, and departures from which you are doing into a lifestyle more conduces to health that allows you to build a lifetime of health.  And I believe start a new generation; start a legacy to affect your future generation.

Janie: You know I have to say that “The Maker’s Diet” is yummy (Laughing).

Sid: Wait a second now, I’ve got it in front of me and you’re talking about eating raw sauerkraut.  Now I don’t mind it with the hotdog but I can’t have the hot dog on The Maker’s Diet.”  (Laughing)

Janie:  No, I’m really not kidding when I go off of “The Maker’s Diet” and I’m feeling really awful.

Sid:  Why do you eat sauerkraut?

Janie: I love sauerkraut.

Sid: Jordan why does she eat your sauerkraut?

Jordan:  Sauerkraut is actually cultured vegetables and we’re hearing a lot about enzymes and probiotics.  Well, every culture in the world really has some type of a fermented vegetable as a condiment to eat with their meat.  That’s why sauerkraut was combined with sausage or a hotdog because sauerkraut especially if it’s raw contains enzymes to help digest protein food.

Sid: Is that very important to help our body digest proteins?

Jordan: You don’t need sauerkraut as part of your daily diet.

Sid: Good.  (Laughing)

Jordan:  Consuming vegetables in one form or another is beneficial.  And there are some food that even that are healing food; they call them super-foods.  And so while sauerkraut is not an obligation there are important concepts in “The Maker’s Diet” that go back to your question.  You mentioned “Aren’t we different don’t we need different foods.”  “The Maker’s Diet” doesn’t tell you what to eat at every moment of the day it gives you the solid principals and foundation in which to build a healthy life.

Sid: Jordan we’re out of time right now.