It's Supernatural

Sid: My guest Dr. Cindy Trimm believes that there are such wounding in peoples souls that it’s stopping us from fulfilling our potential. I guess you’ve wondered why you keep walking around in this big circle and you’re not hearing from God; you’re not walking in supernatural peace; you’re not walking in the gifts of the Spirit. Could it be that there are some soul wounds; this 40 day “Soul Fast Curriculum” it’s actually a kit where Dr. Cindy Trimm is going to coach you every day for 40 days on the DVD’s and 2 books and the study guide… Cindy teach today a bit about my favorite subject the power of love.

Cindy: I love the book of Corinthians how it explains what love is and it explains what the world needs now is really love; and this the greatest expression of God Himself because that’s who God is. God… love is not just an emotion; love is the person of Jesus Christ and that was the gift that God gave each one of us. And He proved His love, love gives, love feeds, love rejoices in truth, love believes all things, hopes all things and endures all things. And it starts with how God feels about us as His children; and I think that that’s the greatest subject of all.  

Sid: Cindy give me an example of someone that has sat under your teaching for love and how it’s impacted their life.

Cindy: Yes, my sister sent me an email a couple of days ago and which really touched me and it was of a woman who had an assignment. She went back to college and her professor gave her an assignment and actually the whole class an assignment and said you know “The next week I want you to smile at least 3 people a day and see what kind of response that you get.” One of the most profound and impactful responses that she got happened while she was standing in one of the fast food restaurants. She noticed that people were beginning to move and had unkind and unpleasant look on their face and she turned around and she smelled something very profound and she looked and there were 2 homeless men and one of them obviously had a walking problem and was being helped by the other. And she said that her tendency would have been to move as well but she remembered her assignment and she just smiled at them. And she smiled back, and she had a prompting to do more than smile and ask them what they wanted and she treated them to breakfast and she went a step further. She not only treated them to breakfast but she sat down and touched one of the hands of the gentleman that was struggling and she looked and there was a tear that run down his eye as he thanked her profusely and said that this is a first time in a long time someone had ever touched him with a touch of compassion and kindness. To me we each have within ourselves to be doers of the word and not just hearers only. I believe that it may not be just a physical touch but every time we smile or treat someone with dignity or treat someone with compassion we are actually touching them with the love of God. And the touch is at the level of their soul; we can feel it.

Sid: Could you talk about an issue in your life and how God set you free.

Cindy: Absolutely, when I grew up in a single parent home; my father abandoned us. I think I was about 2 years old when I tell this story; I didn’t know how deeply it impacted me because I was always… I don’t know I had high aspirations and pushed beyond my circumstances and situations. When I got saved it was a challenge for me to embrace the love of God as He was bestowing it upon me as He was my heavenly Father because at a subconscious level I had transferred the issues of abandonment to how I related to God as my heavenly Father. I could embrace Him as my creator, I could embrace Him as my deliverer, my healer, but not as the heavenly Father that supplied all of my needs according to His riches in glory. God had to gently help me to trust Him as my heavenly Father who supplies all of my needs and that was a healing process that God gave me and I didn’t even know that that was something that I needed healing in until God revealed it to me. And so you know going back with the 40 Day Fast it’s going to be a time of revelation to you. Things that are suppressed the way that we conduct our spiritual life; the way that we view God sometimes has a lot to do with how our natural parents treated us, or in my case did not treat us.

Sid: Cindy, you talk about the need to belong; will you teach on that.

Cindy: Yes we are born with the need to bond; the need to belong. It’s a part of who we are and that is one of the phenomenon’s of gangs because if they can’t find it legitimately within their homes or within their society they’re going to go outside and attach themselves to other individuals. And I believe that what God is doing now is extending to us an opportunity to really understand what it means to belong to the family of God. And what it really means to be loved by God; even a baby if it’s not loved and held; if it’s not bonding with its mother it can fail to thrive. And so that bonding it’s giving to us by God and those of us that didn’t get it in our first family we can get it in our new family which is the family of God.

Sid: Your teaching is really practical step by step. What is the feedback you’re getting from the people that are sitting under these “Forty Day Fast?”

Cindy: We’re getting a lot of positive feedback because the book is written from a Biblical perspective. It’s all Bible, it’s all word and it’s giving people an opportunity to see the Bible as more than just an ancient book, or a book that only has relevance to get us to heaven. People now are viewing the Bible as a practical book; a practical God breathed Bible that has principles that they can apply to their everyday life. It is a book that has wisdom; and wisdom is the science of skillful living. And people now are finding that their love for reading the word of God and being able to garner the practical applications that is necessary for them not only to find a way to get to heaven but to have heaven here on earth. And that’s what I love about this book and how God empowered me to write it. The Bible is just practical.

Sid: Cindy, why is it that people seem to keep returning to the same soulish entanglement over and over and over they just can’t change the pattern.

Cindy: The word of God has made a difference in my life. I have seen how God has actually changed a very destiny of my family; where there was so much pain in our lives from abandonment and living in shame based environment; growing up as one of their only families that were a single family. Most people in my neighborhood had both parents; we were one of the only ones that were single parent. And there was a lot of shame associated with that. Now I can hold my head up high knowing that I don’t have to live as a spiritual orphan; that God has accepted me in His family but not only accepted me but He can accept everyone that is listening that can maybe suffering from a spirit of an orphan. God has accepted you into the bigger family and that’s the family of God.

Sid: Well I sense by the Spirit of God that you can pray for people that feel unloved; feel like an orphan. And actually have lived like an orphan; would you pray for them.

Cindy: Our Father and God I thank you that you are our Heavenly Father and just from my own life I know the struggle that it was and to be able to fully embrace the fact that I am a part of a bigger family and that You’re family. And that You are my heavenly father; and as I pray for those that maybe listening that maybe suffer from abandonment or betrayal or suffer from the pain of being adopted of being abandoned by both parents and had to live with people that never birthed them and suffered from the abuse of people that didn’t know their true worth and dignity. I pray that you would heal their hearts and that you would heal every individual that is listening today. Let Your love be felt and embrace them; and let them sense oh God that they have something to live for.   Break the spirit of an orphan off of them; release them from the shame and the pain and heal the holes in their soul’s and the feeling of emptiness and loneness in Jesus Name, Amen.

Sid: Now my guest in the studio if I call him red hot I think that’s an understatement. My guest is form Ghana, Africa. He comes from 4 generations of witchdoctors; he is the first one in his family to break free and to be free indeed by knowing the Messiah of Israel. Now Samuel Kanco I know that from seeing movies in the United States what a witchdoctor does but really and truly tell me a bit about your back ground; tell me a bit about what a witchdoctor actually does in Ghana, Africa.

Samuel: Thank you very much I’m so glad to be here given an opportunity for me to share with people, God bless you. Now let me… my background has no any other church and some of you have church; you were born into church saved and put back into the church.

Sid: Not me, I was born Jewish. (Laughing)

Samuel: Some people… listen my background has no any background of any church. My great grandfather, my grandfather, my father were all born into adulterous. Typical witchcraft situation, that is all we know, that is all we know, that is what we are practicing. We are born into it; I was born into it and I was getting ready to take up the mantle to continue but by the divine intervention of Jesus Christ I am out. Now my… every first born of our family is supposed to inherit; first born boy. Now my great-grandfather was the first born boy of his father; he took it; my grandfather was the firstborn of my great grandfather he took it. Now my father was the firstborn boy of my grandfather and I was going to succeed, or inherit, my father because I am the firstborn boy in the family. Now listen, because of that I was given a special attention because they were grooming me to take up the whole staff and continue from generation to generation. So when I was about 5 years, between 5 and 11 years, I have really really been demonic, been demonized so much that at the age of 11 or 12 I had obtained 5 different type of creatures already; animals.

Sid: You mean you could turn into 5 different animals.

Samuel: Already.

Sid: Give me an example of what kind of animal.

Samuel: Yeah, a butterfly, snake.

Sid: Now when you turned into these animals…

Samuel: Yes.

Sid: Did it mean like your spirit went into them?

Samuel:   Yeah, yeah in the realm of the spirit my spirit would turn into these animals and go and destroy. We don’t go and destroy in a human form.

Sid: Now there are people listening to us right now that are saying “That’s nonsense there’s no way someone can do that.”

Samuel: Yes, because of movies people are getting to believe and understand that somebody can turn into a bat. Because I’ve seen some movies in America and…

Sid: Somebody can turn into a bat.

Samuel: I’ve seen some movies in America and someone can turn into a bat, and other things so family yes but now people are coming along. So at that tender age 11 years 12 years I could turn 5 different types of animals for evil purposes; that was how I was grooming; I was groomed. And that was how I was coming up to take over the demonic mantel and then push ahead and probably leave it to my first son. But thank God for the divine intervention.

Sid: But what did you do; what was your job?

Samuel: My job is that after I have been groomed to that the extent that I am now full blown demonic man I will now go in and destroy and to deceive, and to become an agent of the devil to make sure that we deceive people; we kill people we destroy people. Now let me tell you this interesting thing. When I got to age 20 my father called me one day and he says “Son, you are getting there, now you need to have 3 contacts before you can go through your first graduation, three contacts.” It means I have to have a contact in the sea; I’ll have to have a contact in the bush; and then I will have to have a contact in the land to be able to become friends with the demons in the land, the demons in the sea, and the demons in the bush. And guess what are the demons living in the sea? Now we have a group of water spirit called “Marine spirit.” Now everything that has something to do with water it is called Marine. So these spirits are living in water and so we called them a Marine spirit. I needed to have a nice lie; a nice contact with them so that I could use them to deceive whoever I wanted to deceive. When you talk about bush we have a demon called dwarfs, now this dwarf spirit lives in the bush. So I also needed to have contact with them so that I could also use them to also deceive people. And then I needed a demon that lives around the sea so I can also use them to deceive and destroy who I want to. So at the age of 20 I have gone through all of this distance. Now I got excited in the sea because when we touch in the sea the sea parted into two and I find myself in a very beautiful city under the sea.

Sid: Now when you went… I have a question. When the sea parted and you found yourself… was that your physical body or your spirit went in there?

Samuel: Spiritual.

Sid: Your spirit went in there okay. What kind of city was it?

Samuel: I can’t… I haven’t yet seen any city that is beautiful than what I saw under the sea; sky scrapers, everything was computerized, even underwater. Nobody believed when I begin to press some buttons and water will come. This computer that we are sitting at now I saw it at late 70’s and early 80’s under the sea.

Sid: Your saying before the computer was invented when you went into this city under the sea.

Samuel: It was already there perfect; they were doing everything with computer.  

Sid: What else did you see back in the 70’s?

Samuel: I saw very beautiful cars there; all the beautiful modern cars that we see I saw them there. I saw a beautiful tiles; they were used for building; the tiles. I saw very beautiful things there that I will use.

Sid: Were these things before they were developed in the material world you saw them.

Samuel: Yeah, yeah, yeah I saw them. Yeah we have a lot of merchants and businessman who comes there; pick them out and sell to people. Now they are doing that just to be able to manipulate people and make sure that they care whatever God has put in man and actually they’ll be able to manipulate man to follow them. So if you buy these things what it does is that you become committed, you become committed and you do not even believe God and Jesus the way that you should. And so these are reasons why these things are there. So people come there, bring them put them into their shops and they commit us and so they make them so heavy that I am not surprised at all that anything goes in America, anything goes.

Sid: Now you told me that you saw famous politicians.

Samuel: Yes.

Sid: Famous people come to this and so they in fact made a pact with the devil in order to get in there.

Samuel: That’s right those big famous people I don’t want to mention their names that I saw the reason why they are there they are there for power and fame. And so most of the movie stars and most of these are there for fame and they are there for money. They make commitments with these demons so that when they come out they perform, but the end results will be so disastrous, but that is what they do.

Sid: Okay now, when you were functioning as a witchdoctor, would you put curses on people?

Samuel: Yes, I did that.  

Sid: Would you kill people?

Samuel: I did that, I killed people.

Sid: Did it bother you at that time?

Samuel: At that time it didn’t bother because people were coming to me to that job so I thought it was fine. Those that have been to school were coming to me doctors and lawyers and everybody and society was hailing us and so at that time I didn’t see anything wrong with it because I had about 15 eyes and then I could see my back, my front, my sides I could see. So I could even see your intestines and I just had to put my hand in the other spirit in your intestines pull it out and start complaining to me and then the next 2 hours you are dead.

Sid: So a lot of people listening to us think that’s all phony, but it’s not.

Samuel: It’s not it’s a real thing that I’m talking about I mean it’s real. That’s why the Bible did not shut up about “We wrestle not against flesh and blood.” That’s why the Bible did not keep quiet about “I have created a destroyer to destroy.” That’s why the Bible didn’t say that “He’s coming down to us.” You see so the Bible wants us to know that God is here and if you are not careful he can be destroyed.

Sid: Okay, you said that when you were working for the devil they would not allow you to sleep more than 2 hours.

Samuel: That’s right.

Sid: At that time, why?

Samuel: Because the harvest is so much but the labors are few; so you are not allow to sleep for 2 hours.

Sid: Because they want you to work.

Samuel: You are on your feet, you are on your feet every day. You are on your feet every day; receiving information from the psychic computer, receiving information from the 2^nd heaven.

Sid: You knew about 9/11 way before.

Samuel: Yes, I knew way before.

Sid: Well look we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrows broadcast.

Sid: Now my guest Laura Harris Smith had a quote that we spend a third of our life in bed; a 60 year old has been asleep for 20 years. And Laura I believe that that’s probably the most open we are in a 24 hour period to give God our undivided attention when we’re asleep. Tell me what you think.

Laura: Oh, I definitely agree with that this society is so action packed and you know going and coming and hardly sitting down. I’m not just describing the world and the lost, I’m describing Christians. And so yes, God is always with us; He never leaves us or forsakes us He says in scripture. So He doesn’t just tuck us in and go minister to other people in other time zones. He wants to be with us; I usually put it like this concisely “He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, He is trinity and we’re made in His image.” We are 3 parts as well and it says in scripture is the one who guards Israel He never sleeps or slumbers. We know that He never sleeps or slumbers so obviously we do but what part of us does. It’s our body and our minds that sleep; but our heart, our spirit is awake all night long. That’s why it encouraging when let’s say they have a family member that has gotten off into false doctrine, let’s say “They call themselves an agnostic by day; listen when they’re sleeping their spirit was created by God to communicate with God and He can work on them at night. And so often times Sid I’ll go to bed and I’ll pray the verse from Song of Solomon which says “I sleep but my heart is awake listening for the voice of my Beloved.”

Sid: So as you put it and as scriptures puts it our body goes to sleep but our spirit is awake 24–7, is that what you are saying?

Laura: Hmm, hmm it sure is; I believe it and I know that God would not waste so much time. We spend an equivalent of 122 days sleeping. And I just have a really hard time the God who said “I will never leave you or forsake you” is going to leave you just because you go to sleep. I mean He is much bigger than that. You know He created the moon and the stars and nighttime for a reason; it was not just an afterthought it was a sacred time.

Sid: Now, I have heard of people that pray in tongues all night while they’re sleeping. I’m not sure that I could do that, but what do you think about that?

Laura:   (Laughing) I don’t know how they could do that while sleeping but I will say that you can train your spirit, your spirit man can commune with God. And yes there are times that I have awaken from a dream and perhaps it’s something very startling you know in the middle of the night and I’ll sense an evil spirit that’s trying to come in with fear or something that is trying to threaten me and you bet I sit straight up in bed and I start praying in tongues. (Laughing) to get rid of it because we as God’s children cannot be harassed by the enemy.

Sid: Now do you just believe that your spirit-man communes with God all night or is this something you really can train your spirit-man to do?

Laura:   Well, like I said if we truly believe the Genesis story and you see very quickly the trinity emerging there. God says “Let us make man in our image.” So already He saying this is trinitarian and so there’s 3 parts to me; so there’s going to be 3 parts to them. So sure when you lay down at night it’s proven your body and mind goes to sleep. But your spirit… I guess you can just say that in my entire life and this has been my story. And I did dream before I was baptized in the Holy Spirit but I’m telling you once I got baptized in the Holy Spirit 20 years ago it’s been like all night at the movies most nights. He really… yes, the closer my spirit walked with the Lord and especially more time I spend in prayer and worship, that’s a huge one, my spirit man may not. You know you sit with the Lord; you might feel you like anything significant happens. You don’t maybe hear anything while you’re there; you think do I even just waste my time my prayers just floated off to cyberspace (Laughing). But what you’re doing is your preparing your spirit-man and what I often find is I go to bed and get the answer. I was really blessed to have Cindy Jacobs endorse the book, and you know she on the back of the book she talked about how “You can solve life’s most pressing issues even while you sleep; I love this book.” So we coined the phrase “Solve your problems while you sleep” because God truly does want to communicate with us there.

Sid: So when you go to bed on a practical basis do you ask God questions just before you go to sleep; how do you do that?

Laura: Hmm, hmm. I often do; but you know though I don’t see evidence in the Bible where anybody ever begged God for a dream. So I caution the reader to not seek the dream but seek the dream giver and that’s the difference in Sigmund Feud and myself as well. He talked about dreams and wrote about dreams but he didn’t know the dream giver. So we have to be very careful that we don’t pursue the gift we pursue the giver. But yes, I really do believe that this is something that is available to every believer. And I believe that our spirit can definitely communicate with the Lord at night. But I also want to add that we definitely need to have faith that when we are… you know when we need to be able to hear Him as well. So I’m not going to negate one or the other; I’m saying that we need to be able to hear and see the voice of God.

Sid: Now you have a whole chapter on nutrition, out of curiosity when you started following your own advice what difference did it make in your dreams?

Laura: (Laughing) Well, I started following my own advice I guess before it was my advice. I came through a lot of trial and error with myself many many years ago. Then I was very pleasantly surprised I guess I shouldn’t have been to learn that when I began studying it for the book to get actual scientific studies that had been done on this it was everything that I was taking. I mean the Lord had just led me right to all of this; and so I was really grateful to Him; I did use myself as a guinea pig during the book, writing of the book, to experiment with some different vitamins and something’s that I read about that would alter your dreams you know. Because I’ll just give you one example “People talk about vitamin D and how important it is if you…or that you can take it and it will increase your dreams.” And I’m like whoa, whoa, whoa vitamin D is very important for your health and for many bodily functions but if you take… remember what vitamin D is it’s the sunshine vitamin right. So if you take the sunshine vitamin to close to bedtime it’s going to give you bizarre dreams. I’m not trying to increase peoples nonsensical bizarre dreams I want them to be able to do something with…

Sid: And that’s why you have all of these instructions in your book. Give me the best answer you have to what is God’s purpose for dreams.

Laura:   Hmm, hmm. To communicate with us, to get our attention when nothing else has it finally in our busy day. And I believe Sid that this is why the enemy comes after our sleep. He will do whatever he has to do whether it be insomnia, apneas or injuries or whatever it is, stress, worry. You know so much of our world has a massive sleep debt I call it and they’re on medication and things that really are not even helping. In fact, they are altering their dream and sleep cycles; so we need the miracle of sleep to reenter our lives I say it again it’s a sacred time. That’s why I spend so much time in those two chapters the medical chapters giving you ideas; things you can do to get a better night sleep. They actually let me include a section called “Laura’s ABC’s for Z’s.”

Sid: Tell me two of the things that you advise.

Laura: (Laughing) Well, I think the one for some reason everybody, and I spell them out A, B, C, D, E I’m very practical like that. So the one that has been curious to me people are surprised at is the letter F and it’s forgive. And when you’re lying down at night and you need to perhaps you’re thinking through the day, you’re thinking through and your trying to find a place of peace so that you can sleep every single night you need to ask God “Show me who I’ve not forgiven.” And I’m telling you sometimes it’s the person lying in bed next to you and you don’t need to go to bed on your anger. Or as the scripture says “It gives your enemy a foothold.” So forgiveness is a huge one; but I will also say that it’s important for you to de-stress that’s letter D. And I say to take about 5 minutes before you climb into bed and really just start this wind down routine where you dim the lights you wash your face, whatever it is get your own bedtime routine. And ask God to help you be disciplined to make it a sacred time, don’t just fall into be stressed after eating a whole pizza you know. Really take this time of night serious and yes, ask God to speak to you there.

Sid: Okay, our time has slipped away and there’s so many questions I want to ask you but there’s so many people dealing with insomnia, so many people that don’t understand their dreams. This 1000 symbol dream dictionary did you just copy someone else’s?

Laura:   No I didn’t I in fact would find so much discomfort; I would be grieved in my spirit when I would different dream interpretations even Christian books with dream interpretations in them. And one time I went to a secular website to check out what they thought on certain things and I read that if you dream of biscuits you’re a woman whose not ambitious enough in your career. And I thought “Are you kidding this is… people are making life decisions.”

Sid: I’m going to tell you, you researched the Bible for a thousand symbols with everything that they could possibly dream and as a matter of fact when someone reads your book “Seeing the Voice of God.” And the DVD “Ten of the most frequently asked questions about dreams and visions and the 3 CD set “Twenty Twenty Hearing.”

Sid: My guest James Durham has been a chaplain for almost 30 years in the U.S. Army, but as a young man I mean literally young 3 years of age he had his first 3^rd Heaven experience. But in 2009 you had an experience where you went to heaven in which you received a commission; tell me about the vision and what happened.

James: Well Sid in the vision I was lifted up to a place that seemed very strange to me at first. I saw this huge old arch door; it had hinges on both sides there was absolute no way to open the door and I stood before that door wanting to get in. I knew that I should get in but I had no means of my own to do that. And as I waited I began to pray in the Spirit asking God to help me and the door suddenly swung open and I was drawn in to that place of the secret place of the Most High God. And getting inside to the place I encountered a cloud of His glory that came and surrounded me and I soaked in the glory. And the Lord commissioned me then to begin to come to heaven on a regular basis to be trained and prepared to invite other people to come to heaven themselves.

Sid: Now the thing that intrigues me is James has received teaching on how others can do exactly what he’s been doing. Now there’s been… when you had that experience a few days later you had another vision of the Throne Room, tell me about that.

James: I was lifted back up to that same place and as I was drawn into that secret place I was aware that it was not just that place. There was a staircase that led upward and the Spirit led me upward to that staircase and as I looked up I saw an open second level open heaven from this room and I saw Jesus standing there. And Jesus called me and said “Come up here now.” And I was instantly in His presence in heaven.

Sid: And what did He tell you?

James: He told me that He had several things that He wanted me to do. And one was He said to write a book about these experiences. And it kind of went against the grain and I always said that I would never write a book and I had to back off from the words that I had spoken.

Sid: Now why would you have said that?

James: I just never saw myself writing a book; I just didn’t think that it would ever happen.

Sid: Hmm, hm.

James:   So I constantly told people that I would never write a book. And the first thing that He asked me to do was write a book. And so I had to be obedient; the Lord said that for people to come to the 3rd heaven He’s going to give instructions and it’s necessary for them to obey the instructions and He was using me as an example. And so He gave me 3 commandments, things to do. The 1^st one was to write the book; the 2^nd one was to move. And at that time He didn’t tell me when and He didn’t say where and didn’t say how but as soon as I returned from that visit I started getting my house in order to get ready to move in obedience to the Lord. The 3^rd thing he asked me to do was impart 3rd heaven visitation to other people. And I was very resistant about this because I was sharing the visions the things that had been happening to me and my experience was a lot of people thought I was about half crazy as I told them about all of these visions that I was having, the experiences that were happening. And I said “Lord, if I go back and tell people that I can impart to them 3^rd heaven visitation they’re going to be convinced that I’m crazy.” And the Lord said “So who is it that you think you are?” And that was a very humbling moment and I said “I’m Your servant and I will do it.”

Sid: Okay, then a few days later you’re speaking at a Sunday service and do you decide to be obedient or did you just sit on it? (Laughing)

James: Well I asked the Lord that day “When?” And the Lord said “Sunday.” And to be obedient to the Lord I had to do it that coming Sunday and I obeyed the Lord.

Sid: What happened?

James: I decide to be obedient to the Lord and I released that impartation and I was very pleasantly surprised to see that some of them did immediately begin to have 3^rd heaven experiences.

Sid: Now since that time obviously you have been praying for lots of other people for this impartation, what are you seeing?

James: I’ve seen literally 100’s of people who have had at least 1/3 heaven visit after the impartation.

Sid: Now you say something that to me that is important but I don’t totally understand it; I have not gone to heaven yet. You say that there is a need to develop our character before this occurs.

James:   Yes that is correct the Lord was teaching me that not really on that visit but on subsequent visits that we really need to renew our minds. We need to root out all bitterness, unforgiveness, strife, doubt and then we need to rebuild our character.

Sid: Why are so many people having 3^rd heaven experiences?

James: I believe that time is very short; we are living in the last days John said in his first letter we are living in the last hour. I believe that the Lord is preparing His bride lf Christ for His return. And the experience that I had in the 3^rd heaven was to get training in instruction, correction and I believe that is what the Lord is wanting to do with the Body of Christ.

Sid: Why is it that some people do and some people do not?

James: Well I asked the Lord that on one of the 3rd heaven visits and the Lord said the number 1 reason that some people do not have the 3rd heaven visit is grace. He is going to give them specific things that He wants them to do and there are some that are not ready to obey. And if He gives them specific direction in heaven and they do not obey then a judgment will come quickly. He does not want to set people up for judgment; He wants to continue to give them grace so He waits until people are ready.  

Sid: Now out of curiosity let’s assume right now you went to the 3rd heaven; will you ask a question, will you just soak in the glory, will you just be taught; what’s the norm if there is such a thing?

James: I wanted to say yes to all of the above.

Sid: (Laughing) Okay.

James: Because on some visits I say absolutely nothing; I’ve gone intending to ask questions but in the presence of the Lord I was in such awe of the Lord I couldn’t remember the questions and wound up saying absolutely nothing during that visits. I’ve also gone at times when the Lord was conducting a class; usually there’s a number of people present in the class when he teaches.

Sid: When you say a number how many would you say

James: I’d say 30 or 40.

Sid: Did you recognize any of them?

James: I have recognized a few of them.

Sid: Could you tell me one.

James: Well I rather not mention the names of anyone but some of the people that we’ve mentored I’ve seen a couple of them there.

Sid: Now these are people that have had 3rd heaven experiences?

James: Some have and some are not aware of having 3rd heaven visit yet I saw them there.

Sid: Okay, a million dollar question. Why did God choose you to teach people how to go to 3rd heaven?

James: I believe the Lord chose me because basically I was unknown; I’m just an average every day person and I think the Lord chose someone that if others heard about heaven would say “If he can go, I can go.” If someone is really famous or someone with a big name goes everyone says “Well of course, that’s who they are.” But if someone unknown just an average person visits heaven it tells people “I can do that too.”

Sid: …briefly explain what you teach.

James: What I teach in that is God had such a heart of love for us that He wanted to manifest Himself to us and teach us about His attributes and help us to get deep relationship with Him to come into unity of His Spirit and so He made a very dramatic move to be able to come to us 7 different stages of glory beginning on the mountain top meeting with Moses. And coming down eventually through Yeshua His glory was personally manifested in Yeshua and the in the coming of the Holy Spirit. Then the Lord wants us to be drawn back to Him through 7 levels of glory. And the Lord revealed to me that first of all, that 7^th level of Him coming down the Holy Spirit is really our first level of connecting to go back to Him. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is really the first level of glory we experience of God. Then from there like on the first day of Pentecost we go through empowering glory; up to gifted glory to joy to Shalom to intimacy, and then finally unity.

Sid: You know on tomorrows broadcast I want you to explain what the glory really is because as I understand the glory that is the age that we’re living in right now that we can be walking in this glory. And people wherever we are the glory shows up and their healed and someone’s back and neck was just healed in Jesus Name. But the thing “Beyond the Ancient Door,” and “The 7 Levels of Glory,” and the 3 CD teaching will equip you with prayers of impartation to enter into the glory realm; enter the secret place, enter the 3rd heaven. This is your moment; aren’t you tired of just reading about what other people are doing; it’s the last act of the last play just before the conclusion and you’re being called; what are you going to do about it?

Sid: I can’t think of anything anywhere that will make you have a greater passion for the Messiah than Bree Keyton’s new book called “The Passion, What Does it Mean?” And it was birthed out of a vision that she had in May of 1993. Bree I know on yesterday you explained that vision but would you explain it again, but with far more detail.

Bree: When I saw Jesus receiving His stripes, and that’s what the vision was in May of 1993. It was an absolutely unbelievably graphic and bloody vision. And people who are afraid to look at that I think that they’re going to miss the absolute majesty of what He took for us. The plan of God that He would suffer, come as the Lamb of God, the Passover Lamb, and suffer for us. So this vision was very bloody and very graphic and I saw swirling around Jesus skin and blood and tiny droplets just like a fizz a mist all around Him to the point that it was like a little cloud was around Him as He was being beaten and whipped and mocked and hit.   And these were the things that I saw in my vision it made me fall on my face and weep for 3 days. After that came the song “Stripes” which we played yesterday. And then subsequently over 3 years of fasting, and praying the songs “Nails, Thorns and the Blood” and then of course the books which you know about culminating with this book “The Passion, What Does it Mean.” These are books that came out of time spent with Father God in a way that only God could have shown me these things. So there’s a lot of revelation in this book that I know is going to touch hearts.

Sid: On yesterday’s broadcast you brought out something that very few Christians have ever heard anywhere, and it has to do with some of the things that happened in Jesus Life. Some of the phrases he even said, and explain some of these things from your book.

Bree: Let’s back up to palm… what we call Palm Sunday it was really the day that Jesus entered Jerusalem. That was a marvelous day; what a celebration. The High Priest would leave the Temple Mount and all of the Priests would line the streets with their palm fronds in their hands. And the High Priest would head out of the city toward Bethlehem to select the Passover lamb. Now Bethlehem was where all of the sacrificial animals for the temple were bred and he would go and select a perfect little lamb to be their Passover lamb and he would lead it back to the city. And as he did the priest lining the streets would shout “Blessed be the king that commeth in the Name of the Lord.” On this particular day when Jesus triumphantly entered the city of Jerusalem he came from the other direction after the High Priest had left. And of course He entered the city as our high priest and as our Passover Lamb at the same time. And He came in and He was in the city for several days and then of course they had Him arrested. Now when He went to the cross the very words He spoke from the cross “I thirst, and it is finished” were the very words the High Priest was speaking on the temple mount at that precise time. The High Priest would begin to sacrifice the lamb and he would say the words “I thirst” at that moment Jesus said “I thirst.” And then he would sacrifice the lamb and he would sprinkle it with blood on the altar. And He would say the words “It is finished.” At that moment Jesus spoke the words “It is finished!”

Sid: So you’re saying for 100’s of years before at that moment the high priest would say these words and then Jesus fulfilled those words.

Bree: Perfect fulfillment of the Feast of Passover, what a marvelous, marvelous thing to get it into our hears that each and everything that He took on his way to that cross had meaning and purpose for us and with a fulfillment of 100’s of prophecies about Messiah. But also a perfect fulfillment of the shadow pictures of the Feast of Passover.

Sid: And on yesterday’s broadcast we didn’t get a chance to finish it, but actually why don’t you start out as you point out in your book what would happen in Israel with the lamb with a normal Passover and how that was a shadow of Jesus.

Bree: Well they would take the little lamb; now on the Temple Mount of course they would have this little lamb inspected and it had to be perfect without spot or wrinkle, just as our Messiah was perfect without spot or wrinkle. And in each home in Israel they would sacrifice a lamb, put the blood over their doorpost and then they would have their feast where they would consume the lamb. Now this is something that had been done down through the millennia by the Hebrew people. I mean year after year, century after century, yet when Messiah came they did not recognize Him because they were expecting a Messiah that would ride in on a white horse and charge in and run the Roman’s out of there and take over and triumph as the anointed King. Of course we know that there is going to be a day when He will return as the anointed King; of course He is anointed as the Son of God. But this time He came as the suffering Savior to pay a terrible price for our sin, yours and mine.

Sid: Now it was prophesied that His disciples would shout “Blessed be the King that comes in the name of the Lord.” How was that fulfilled?

Bree:   when He entered that city his disciples took up the cry; the same cry that the high priest had all the other priests shout as he came into the city they would shout that this particular Passover they shouted “Yeshua, the Messiah of God.” And the high priest of our salvation entered the city. And the priests heard this they were angry because they looked and they saw; “Well, this is not the High Priest that we were expecting; this is another person, this is just Jesus of Nazareth, you hush up.” And of course I’m paraphrasing everything. And he said “I will not hush up; He said….

Sid: I was going to ask you “What version of the Bible was that?” I’m just teasing but go ahead.

Bree: Well, I’m paraphrasing but anyway he said “If they will not shout it on this day even the rocks will cry this out.” So you see this was preordained oh you know 100’s and 100’s of years in advance when the first Passover began in Egypt these things were preordained by the living God. He set things up because He had a magnificent plan to bring His son through a virgin that all might be saved.

Sid: You know in your book you go into such detail from a Hebraic understanding of the Passion. One of the things that intrigued me I’d never heard this before in your chapter about attacks against the mind and of course before that you talk about the thorns. But you talk about this Japanese doctor that made an amazing discovery about the heart, explain.

Bree: Yes, there was a doctor that actually found brain cells in the heart. Now this is a recent discovery, but you know God knew this. God knew this and he even had his prophet write this in Proverbs 23.7 says “As he thinketh in his heart.” How can you think in your heart? See God knew, God knew because he created us; “as a man thinketh in his heart so is he.” And in Matthew 12 it says “For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.” We know that the heart and mind are intertwined from a book by Daniel Denune which connects mental health with heart health. And it’s been really found that when people have mental stress it causes obstruction in the heart coronary artery disease caused by mental stress.

Sid: Tell me about the CD, and it’s really nicely packaged this book and CD. The book is called “The Passion, What does it mean?” She goes into such detail that very few Christians understand from Hebraic eyes but you have a song in your CD. We played yesterday the one called “Stripes” and you have one called “Nails.” Tell me what is the purpose of “Nails” and what is the purpose of the song and what happens when people hear this?

Bree: When they hear the song “Nails” there have been a number of people that have been just delivered on the spot. Delivered of demonic oppressions, delivered from attacks against them in their minds, their bodies, their spirits; everywhere that the devil would try to attack a person to try to destroy them. And many have been set free just a couple of months ago there was a woman who was pregnant and she was about to lose her baby and she really felt that she was under demonic attack. She heard this song at a Bible study; people actually use these songs for Bible studies. And she heard it at a Bible study and 7 demons came screaming out of her in front of about 8 people. And I mean she was astonished and everyone else. But this is the sort of thing that we have dozens upon dozens of reports like this of people being delivered.

Sid: And what you talk about is… and again I haven’t seen this elsewhere what the nails actually were and the fact that many people during that time were crucified without nails, explain that to us.

Bree: Well Jesus was nailed to the cross and we know that that had to happen because there was prophecy about it. Back in Psalm 22 it says “They looked on him who whom they pierced.” That was a prophecy that He would be nailed to the cross, not tied to the cross and most criminals were just simply tied to the cross. But Jesus was a violent offender to the kingdom of darkness, as we know he was the most violent offender. And so they nailed Him to the cross. Nails really set us free and delivered us, body, soul and spirit as God set us free through the hammering, through the horror of what He took in His hands and feet. You know our hands and our feet often do wickedness and these are areas where God wanted to set us free the works of our hands, feet run to do wickedness. Yet Jesus was nailed to that cross in a permanent kind of way, He could not get free. And of course He allowed Himself to be nailed to that cross to set us free from all of the attacks of the wicked one.

Sid: Okay, Bree we’re out of time but we’re going to play that selection “Nails” on tomorrow’s broadcast and I’m expecting many people to be set free.