It's Supernatural

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to understand that the Biblical festivals are appointments with God so that we can get insight into the final play that’s on the scene right now. The way to get insight is to take a look at the rehearsal, take a peek. How would you like a book from God that gives you a peek into what’s going to happen in the last days? That’s the Biblical festivals, that’s what God’s trying to tell us in the book of Leviticus. I have on the telephone Rick Neill I’m speaking to him at his home right outside of Akron, Ohio about his brand new book literally just off the press “Ultimate Glory.” In which we take a peek at these Biblical festivals… those that have been listening earlier this week we found out that the spring feasts were fulfilled to the decimal point. I mean the first Jewish people before Jesus came if they could have just examined with an open mind these Biblical festivals they would have seen everything that happened at the first coming of Jesus. Same thing is true today, if the church will just take a peek without the blinders on at these Biblical festivals they’ll find rehearsals of the return of the Messiah. Let’s take a look Rick at Rosh Hashanah, the Feast of Trumpets. What does this mean to us?

Rick: Okay to the church this is a time that the Lord is calling us to repentance. There’s really 2 keywords that we need to address with the Feast of Trumpets:

1. Repentance
2. Grace

To understand what the Lord is calling the church to here, we must understand that the Lord’s perspective on repentance is that we are to turn from the things that are hindering. We are to turn from them, we are to from dead works, and we are to turn to the Lord.

Sid: Now when I think of the Feast of Trumpets, or Rosh Hashanah, coming from a traditional Jewish background, I think that those were the 10 days leading up to the day of judgment, Yom Kippur. Those were the days that we had to be really introspective and determined what areas might stop us from having our sins forgiven on Yom Kippur and to repent over it. We used to call it the 10 days of awe and repentance.

Rick: That’s exactly right, the feast of trumpets is a 10 day feast. The 10^th day of that feast is the Day of Atonement which is the most holy day of all the feast days. It is the most awesome day of all the feast days. The Feast of Trumpets is a call to believers to check our hearts to make sure that we’re right both with the Father and with our brothers. It’s really a call to get the 1^st commandment and the 2^nd commandment functioning correctly in our lives. That we are to be loving the Father, we are to be loving the Lord our God with all of our heart mind, soul, and strength. We are to be loving one another as He loves us. There are so many people in the church today say that “I love God” yet they don’t love their brother. These people are in a really dangerous place because the Lord says “If you can’t love your brother who you have seen you can’t love God who you haven’t seen.” The Lord is calling His church now together in love to be in love with the Father, to be in love with one another, it’s a time of repentance not only before the Lord to get right with what we need… we need to get right with the Lord, but we also need to go to our brothers and sisters. Anyone who has ought against us we need to make that right. Anything that we’re holding against others we need to forgive. This is a time of… if your coming in on the wrong side of this this is the most terrible time in all the feast days. This is a… you don’t want to be out of fellowship with God. You don’t want to be playing with hidden sin coming into the Day of Atonement. It is a terrible time for that, but on the other side of this the same identical time period if you heart is tender towards God, if you have a heart that is repentant before God and loving your brothers this is the most exciting time, the grandest promises in all of scripture are about to be fulfilled in your life.

Sid: So in effect if I’m understanding your analysis in your book we have a window to repent and the window is called Feast of Trumpets.

Rick: Precisely. We’re in that window right now.

Sid: You really believe that?

Rick: I believe that with all of my heart. I believe there’s never been such preaching of repentance to the church, in the church, to the church as there is now. The Holy Spirit is raising up this call of purity. He’s raising up a call of love, there is a call right now… the word of the Lord underpinning much of what’s going on right now is the release of the love, the deep love that the Father has for us; the Father’s heart message, the message of the bridegroom and the bride. This overwhelming love that the Father want’s us to respond to His love so powerfully that he’s opening His heart and calling us to come into this deep love and the enemy has tried to keep us out of that love through guilt, and shame, and fear and different things. But now the Father is ripping apart all of this and He’s saying “Please get ready the time is here. If you’re on the wrong side the Day of Atonement is your worse nightmare coming through. But if you’re on the right side, if you’ve made things right with the Lord this is the greatest day imaginable.”

Sid: Some of the suggestions you might have for our Mishpocha to do things right… if we’re being nudged as you said on yesterday’s broadcast by the Holy Spirit as in your case it was, and that’s not everyone I want you to understand, it’s whatever is your idol. In Rick’s case he was spending too much time and had too much of an interest in sports, and as I understand it the Father was jealous.

Rick: Precisely (laughing). Father really loves me and He loves all of His kids. He wants to have fellowship with us everyday. I had a dark spot in my relationship with the Lord that I didn’t even know it was there. It was a long experience I’ll make it short. He took me, the Lord just took me in His arms and loved away all guilt and shame that was in my life. It wasn’t guilt and shame from the time before I was saved from things I did back when I was a sinner. It was guilt and shame for things that I compromised on since I was saved. I’m not backslidden, I don’t have any deep hidden secrets in my life for sin, it’s just things that I didn’t do as well as I should have I could have done better. All of these things over the years kind of built up a wall of guilt and shame. The Lord came and tore that down to let me know He loves me and that He accepted me and He likes me just the way I am. Now He’s calling me to come and let Him wrap His arms around me and love me into wholeness.

Sid: What would you suggest someone do that knows that they don’t have the intimacy that is available that God wants for them? What steps would you suggest they take during this season of the Feast of Trumpets where we’re suppose to be getting rid of all the junk that’s separating us from this intimacy?

Rick: I’ll take you down the path the Lord took me down. Several years ago the Lord spoke to my wife and I, and our family and He called us to begin taking communion everyday on a daily basis. Not to make a law out of it we don’t do it everyday but we try to do it quite often. It has become a source of intimacy in life for us.

Sid: You know the Lord called me to do this also and I never cease to be amazed that when I take the elements I’m feeling such a presence of God come on me.

Rick: Yeah.

Sid: It must be a supernatural thing in the spirit realm it literally causes the devil to shake and God to be pleased.

Rick: Exactly. In the scriptures Jesus Himself said that “If you eat My flesh and drink My blood I will abide in you and you will abide in Me.” That is a pretty good working definition of communion, it’s also a pretty good working definition of intimacy…

Sid: Now just out of curiosity, we’re talking about the positive things to do, what if the Holy Spirit keeps coming gently, and He does come gently, and He is saying “I want you to stop this because its time for your separation, it’s time for you to prepare for the great Jewish wedding” and you keep saying “No” during this particular season of Feast of Trumpets.

Rick: The Lord will continually work with us and what we can’t afford to do is to allow our hearts to be hardened. You can see the exact scenario that you just described played out in the 7 churches in Revelation. Where the Lord would come to the churches and said “I am aware of your works I know your works now this is what you’re doing good, this is what you’re doing bad. Hold on to doing what you’re doing good, get rid of repent of what you’re doing bad, or I will come…” and there are several different things there. He said He will remove their name from the book of life, He will remove their candlestick, He will come and… those who don’t repent there are list of things that you can see in those 7 churches that you do not want to experience. The Lord has called us, and the very first church concerning loosing our first love, they lost their first love. They were doing a lot of good religious stuff but they had lost their first love and if they didn’t repent He was going to come and cut them off and that’s the message of the Day of Atonement. The Feast of Trumpets is a time preparation shouting the good and the bad…

Sid: Alright but those that haven’t repented now comes the Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur. What’s going to happen to those?

Rick: The picture of that, I believe the perfect picture of that was in the book of Joshua with Achan where Achan had seen the power and the glory of God. That he had been with Joshua, they had come across the Jordan, he had been circumcised, found of covenant, he had seen the miraculous power of God with Jericho and God had said “Don’t do this, don’t steal don’t take this stuff” but he took the stuff and hid it in his tent. That act stole the power of God out of the camp of God…

Sid: Not just the power…

Rick: Yeah.

Sid: It cost him his life.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah. As I’m saying this I’m thinking about my guest Rick Neill; I’m speaking to him by telephone at his home right outside of Akron, Ohio. Interviewing him on his brand new book “Ultimate Glory,” one of the first books I’ve seen that takes the Biblical festivals that in the Hebrew God says are actually rehearsals, and gives us a peek into what’s going to happen in the last days rather than through the filtered deception of the Greco-Roman understanding. We look at the rehearsals that God Himself put into the scriptures that said “If you want to take a peek into the book of the last days look at My Biblical festivals.” So right now Rick believes we are in Rosh Hashanah, the Feast of Trumpets. In traditional Judaism and in the Bible it tells us that it’s 10 days of awe and repentance where you repent. So what’s going to Rick for those, and we’re in that window right now of those 10 days of repentance. What’s going to happen to the lukewarm believers in the Messiah, which let’s be candid, are most Christians today? Unfortunate I hate to say this but it’s true I believe many churches are nothing more than warehouses for hell. What’s going to happen to those that refuse to get red hot during this 10 days of Feast of Trumpets, or Rosh Hashanah?

Rick: I believe the very word you reference there, lukewarm will give us the key to that. Is in Revelation 3 where Jesus said “He knows our works and would that we were hot or cold, but those who are lukewarm” He said that He is “going to vomit out of His mouth.” I believe that is about as clear as it can get. That is not… that doesn’t mean “Well done good and faithful servant.” That is the Lord vomiting, I believe He’s… that’s a picture of lukewarmness making the Lord sick. Which I’m a Baptist with the earlier peace days when speaking of Jesus back with Passover He said “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.” Then concerning Pentecost with the baptism of fire, baptism of the Holy Spirit, He said “Behold He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” Well there’s also a prophecy from John concerning this time this Day of Atonement. In Luke 3:17 it says “His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire.” I believe that shows that same picture that the Lord is coming to purify His bride, He’s coming back for a bride without spot or blemish, without wrinkle. That purified bride, that clean bride, that glorious bride is going to be here on earth it’s not just going to be in heaven.

Sid: So let’s take… there was an exact day that was fulfilled where we had a rehearsal first by looking at the festival in the Old Testament. Then we saw it actually fulfilled in a single day, that was Pentecost. Do you believe that there’s like a cut-off point called Yom Kippur, or Day of Atonement, that when that occurs if someone is still lukewarm or a foolish virgin, they’re going to be cut-off?

Rick: I believe that with all my heart Sid. I believe that…

Sid: Well let’s look at the positive, what about those of us who repent and are red hot for the Messiah. What’s going to happen to us on the Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur?

Rick: Okay I believe Isaiah 60 shows that really well. I believe that this is going to be a time of great darkness. It says “Arise, shine; For your light has come! And the glory of the Lord is risen upon you. For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and deep darkness the people; But the Lord will arise over you, and His glory will be seen upon you.” For me that carries the entire picture of the Day of Atonement. I believe we are heading into the darkest time in human history. I believe that darkness is overtaking the earth, but I also believe that the Lord has purposely going to use that darkness as a backdrop to help magnify the glory that’s about to be released in the church.

Sid: Is that what we’re being prepared for in this 10 days of Feast of Trumpets, and it’s not 10 literal days but the season we’re in right now?

Rick: Exactly. I believe in Romans 8:18 it says “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” In John 17:22 Jesus said “And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one.” I really believe that this… just like in the shadow that on the shadow day of atonement the high priest once a year on this day would go in and the glory would feel the temple. Just as on Pentecost when the Lord came as a baptizer with the Holy Spirit and He filled His entire church that was in one accord they all were filled with the Holy Ghost and fire. I believe the same is going to be seen on the Day of Atonement when the great High Priest Jesus Himself comes and fills His temples with glory. Again there’s a perquisite as with the Day of Pentecost, the perquisite was they were all in one accord, that their hearts were all together they were not rebellious, they were not selfish, they were in accord with one another and the Lord. I believe the same thing is true with this upcoming Day of Atonement that the Lord is calling from our perspective. We can get fearful if we look at the judgments and the cutting off that the Lord speaks about. But from God’s perspective He’s looking for the faithful, this whole thing about the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Trumpets is about faithfulness. Passover and Pentecost dealt with faith, but now we’re dealing, the fall feast days are dealing with faithfulness those who are faithful will be blessed beyond their wildest dreams.

Sid: Now one of the things I’ve often wondered is the book of Ephesians talks about the glorious church. You don’t have to be a great theologian to figure this out it’s a church that’s filled with the literal glory of God. I’ve often wondered how God is going to do this. The way you’re explaining it, and we’re in a season of separation right now. On Yom Kippur, Day of Atonement, this… you were quoting from Isaiah 60 the Spirit of the Lord being upon us. Describe what it’s going to be like in the church and in the world on real Christians on the Day of Atonement, on those that are red hot.

Rick: I believe the prophecy that Jesus Himself spoke said that “Those who would believe in Him they would do the same works that He did and even greater.” I believe the glory of the Lord is going to fill every repentant Christian those who respond in correct ways to the call to repent they’re going to be so filled with the glory of God that they are going to walk as Jesus walked, that they are going to be filled with His glory. I believe it could even go to the point where the Mount of Transfiguration, where the disciples saw Jesus up on the mountain. Jesus was still in His earthly body but He was walking in the footsteps that His Father had predestined for Him. In that still earthly body the glory of the Lord filled Him. Moses when He came down off the mountain He glowed and had to put a veil over His face and that was under a lesser covenant. I believe that the ultimate of this of the Day of Atonement is going to be so far beyond our capacity to dream; I believe that we’re going to empty out hospitals, nursing homes, children’s homes, I believe that raising the dead is going to be common place, I believe that the outfall the tidal wave of this Day of Atonement is that there are going to be billions, not millions, swept into the kingdom.

Sid: But there’s also going to be persecution going on. A lot of people feel that the church will really be whipped about that time not that it’ll be a great revival.

Rick: Well there’s going to be, probably a better word might be reformation than revival because the Lord is going to reform the entire church.

Sid: In other words, it’s not going to stop where Martin Luther stopped it’s going to go all the way.

Rick: Yes. Everything that is in the church now the lukewarmness, and the compromise, and the pretend Christians they’re all going to be gone on the Day of Atonement, they’re going to be severed, they’re going to be winnowed by His winnowing fan. Those who are left are going to be devoted they’re going to be filled with His glory, they’re going to walk as Jesus walked, and they are going to be unstoppable.

Sid: Is it time for a red hot Christian to be alive?

Rick: Whoooo (laughing) it’s the best time. I’m looking… I used to so look forward to the rapture but now that has been so far moved to the back burner for me because I want to walk in the full glory of my Lord. I want to see the fullness…

Sid: Okay but where does the rapture come in according to the Biblical festivals?

Rick: I believe that the Lord is showing me on that is that the rapture will occur on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles, which is 5 days after the Day of Atonement. I don’t know if that’s going to be 5 literal days, I don’t know that it matters. I believe what the scenario will be will be that the church is called to repentance and preparation to the Feast of Trumpets. Then on the Day of Atonement the glory will fall, it will feel the church and it will so empower the church that there will be literally millions of Jesus’, the least on this earth in the fullness of His glory and power. In His church the glory will cover the earth and in this time period between the Day of Atonement and the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles. If this is where this massive harvest will take place and the Feast of Tabernacles is called the Feast of the Great Harvest. I believe what the Lord is showing is the rapture will occur on the first day of the Feast of the Great Harvest, or the Feast of Tabernacles.

Sid: Then you see 7 years, the same scenario of 7 years with the anti-Christ coming on the scene?

Rick: Yes I believe so.

Sid: Well who’s going to be preaching the gospel then if the rapture occurs?

Rick: Okay I believe that… the emphasis… that brings me to a different question, to answer your question I have to go a different direction.

Sid: Rick we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

SID: Brent, what is the Glory and what is possible in the Glory?

BRENT: Well when I think about the Glory, I think of when Moses came down the mountain, the Glory of God is something that changes us inwardly and it shines outwardly. The Glory of God is his nature, his character, his righteousness. It’s a heavenly intelligence. It’s an awareness of knowing that you know God and you’re hungering for God, and he knows that, and he just begins to pour it out.

SID: Explain to me the pattern you found out from the Bible about the Glory, especially with Moses.

BRENT: Well Moses, this is such an incredible story because Moses says to God, the first thing he says is, “If I have found grace in your sight,” and then he says, “show me your Glory.” And then God says, “Because you have asked this.” See, I believe that we’re in a season now, we need to ask for the Glory of God. We need to decree the Glory of God in our homes, in our cars, in our businesses, in our communication. When we email people we need to send the Glory of God. When we text people, we need to send the Glory of God. And so God told Moses, he said, “You cannot see my face, but you can see my backside, and I’m going to hid you into the cleft of the rock.” Hello Jesus. And so as I was preparing, I told you today that God showed me, then God says, “I will pass by you.” But if we really think about what happened, how could God just pass by. No, no, no, no. He passed through Moses because everything that Moses does after this is now from the place of establishing the Glory that’s in him.

SID: How would you like God to pass through you? I’m going to release you, Brent. I want him to proclaim. I’ve heard him do this, this is phenomenal, the names of God and watch God pass through you. Are you ready, audience?

BRENT: Hallelujah. Just lift your hands right now. Father, we decree and declare right now that you are Jehovah Jireh, that you are the God who not only meets our need, but you see our need, and you know our place where we are, God. You are not a God that is far off. And we decree and declare that you are close as our words, to our manifestation of our miracle. Father, we decree and declare Jehovah Rapha, Jehovah Rapha right now that you are our healer in this place right now. In the name of Jesus I decree and declare over cancer, over diabetes, over blood disorders, over heart issues, over epilepsy right now. Somebody has a son or a daughter in here, you’re epileptic right now. God has seen the decree, all the Rapha over him and the Father, we thank you that you are Jehovah Shammah, you are the God that is always there. You’re the God that is more than enough, you’re the God that supplies all of our needs. So we receive it right now in the name of Jesus. We decree and declare that you are Jehovah M’Kaddesh, you are Jehovah Tsidkenu, our sanctification and our righteousness. God, we decree and declare, and over you and the media, over you, but over the world that you are Jehovah Shalom. You are our peace which passes all understanding. Let’s give the Lord a shout. Hallelujah! I wrote this one this morning especially for you guys. It says, I decree that the supply of Heaven will be my portion. I decree that the supply of Heaven will swallow up and devour all my lack. I decree that with my mouth I carve out a realm of prosperity as I speak blessing and favor in Jesus’ name. I decree that you are Jehovah Shammah. You’re the God that is always with me. I decree this is your day of breakthrough. This is your day of breakthrough. I want to say this to you. We are in the second half of this year. The six months that just were gone, it was for preparation for your glory and breakthrough. And let me tell you something. Let me just say this to you. There is just too much of God in us to fail in this next season. Too much. You need to look in the mirror and say there’s just too much of God in me to fail because greater is he that is in me and he that is in the world. Hallelujah. I decree that anything that has held me back or us back in the future has been defeated in this past season. I decree that faith will increase and we will speak to mountains, and they will move. I decree that we will walk in abundance that you have for us. I decree that anything from my past that may have derailed my victory is defeated, destroyed and covered by the blood of Jesus. Oh Lord, our season of frustration and lack is over and we step in and we supernatural time travel into all God has for us in Jesus’ name. Hallelujah.

SID: And I decree that you are going to go everywhere and proclaim to everyone the good news that Jesus the Messiah is Lord.

BRENT: Yes! Hallelujah. Thank the Lord.

SID: Sid Roth here. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest had a tragedy, his young son, no hope, no brain activity. He had no chance and my guest wasn’t, well he was a believer, but kind of backslidden and he figured he didn’t even have the right to go to God. But Jesus appeared to him and the presence of God came on him, and he went into the hospital, and he had a great miracle, and every time he shares about this miracle that same presence goes on others. Get ready. What a way to start. A little baby, and his grandmother takes him to a meeting, and an evangelist, as he’s a baby, lays hands on him, and what did he prophesy?

KEITH: He prophesied that I’d be used in the End Times for revival, that I would see great thingscome to pass when I prayed for people and that led to, as I grew older, to begining to have the dream.

SID: And what were your dreams about?

KEITH: My dreams were always the same dream every time. I was in great crowds of people that were reaching out to me, many of them, many stadiums and they were reaching out for healing, deliverance and salvation, and God was touching them instantly. And I would wake up, you know, crying, and my grandmother would say, “That’s not for now. Remember the prophecy is for the End Times.” We’re in the End Times.

SID: So it is now.

KEITH: Yes.

SID: Okay. Your son, out of nowhere, six years old, just has bacterial spinal meningitis, no brain activity. I checked with my personal physician and I said, “Doctor, if a six-year-old has this bacterial spinal meningitis with no brain activity, what is the chance of him surviving?” He says, “None, but if a miracle were to happen he’d survive, but he’d have his, he wouldn’t have his brain.” That’s what he said. What happened to your son? Tell me.

KEITH: Well when Justin rolled out of the bed on Halloween night he had been to school that day and got a fever, and was taken to the doctor, and came home, and just in the middle of the night he rolled out of bed. I heard him hit the floor, picked him up, carried him to the hospital. They sent him to two more [doctors] that night. He was in a fetal position. He couldn’t see, walk, talk, hear, do nothing. He’s having convulsions. We took him, he ended up in ICU. They called in the greatest minds in the world and they said that bacterial spinal meningitis had caused him now to have no brain waves, and that everybody that had been in contact with him had to be treated medically including me and my wife.

SID: It was so contagious, [the] bacteria.

KEITH: It was very contagious. People were dying from this thing. And they said that, we don’t give him any chance, zero. And you know, many days passed that by and it was that way. And so I’m sitting in the hospital when all the doctors gave up, Sid, every one of them gave up and said, “There’s nothing else to do. We’re going to unplug him from the breathing machine, the ventilator. There’s no brain waves, there’s no movement, there’s no change after many days.” I talked to my wife, I said, as she sat in that glass room, I said, “I’m going home. I’ve got to be alone.” And I went home that night, and I was sitting in the bedroom and I was crying, and I said, “God, why?”

SID: You weren’t the only one crying. You told me all the staff was crying.

KEITH: Everybody was crying. He was such a cute little six-year-old boy. And we’re all crying and crying. And I’m crying, and I said, “God, you know, why did you allow this? Why did you do this?” And God said, you know, in my spirit I heard, “I didn’t do this. The enemy attacked your child and you need to get right with me.” And I began to cry in repentance, and when I did, all of a sudden the room lit up like 10 billion light bulbs and Jesus was right in front of me. Right in front of me. And the thing that was so, I thought, you know, if Jesus ever appeared you just talked to him. You can’t move. The power was so strong. I was wide awake and this Glory is hitting me, and it’s like this light is so bright you can’t hardly see. I mean, I’m trying to see him and I thought, what’s he going do? I couldn’t move. He says, “Go to church.” And then I saw this love coming out of his eyes. Well he’s gone. One minute, he was only with me one minute, 60 supernatural seconds. He gave me an instruction. What do you think I did? I jumped up, got in the car, ran out the driveway, went down, I was going to my church that I had left, you know, a year ago. It was an hour away. But you know what? As I turned the corner there was a little church on the corner and there was a man standing there trying to lock the door. It wouldn’t lock. He lived in another city. His coat was blowing in the wind. I pulled in and said, “Can I use your church?” He says, “Who are you?” And I said, “My son is critically ill. He’s at the point of death.” I said, “No hope.” And he said, “I would have done been gone, but this door won’t lock.” So he said, “Go ahead.” I went down, got on my knees, repented before God. The Lord spoke to me and said, “Justin is healed. He will be named the miracle boy of the hospital and you will go out pray for the sick.” And I took off. He said, “Go, you got to go and prophesy this now. Tell them people.”

SID: Wait a second. Now the staff is crying. There’s no brain waves going on and he’s supposed to go in the hospital and say, “My son is a miracle boy. He’s going to get up and walk out.”

KEITH: Yes.

SID: When we come back, let’s find out what happened.

Sid: As we look at secular media we find that there’s a lot of fun being poked at Christians. As we look at statics we find there are as many divorces in the church as outside of the church. There are problems with child molestation, there’s problems with drugs, there’s problems of alcoholics, this should not be. I have on the telephone speaking to them at their headquarters “Where proclaiming His Word Ministries” in Santa Rosa Beach, Florida, Chester and Betsy Kylstra. One of my members of my Board of Directors suggested I contact them because they’ve been putting on seminars places such as the Toronto, Airport Church, Bill Hammond’s Ministry for the leadership and as surprisingly as it is setting a number of leaders free. I have to ask you this question Chester when we read about Jesus we don’t read about them going…the people going through a seminar and dealing with unforgiveness and dealing with past hurts and dealing with 4 generation back curses and dealing with if it’s demonic activity. All we hear about is someone lays hands on someone and they get set free. Why is it necessary to follow these foundational principals that you cover in your seminars?

Chester: Well I wish I really knew the answer to that I think probably the simplest answer though is that you and I are not Jesus. It seems that in today’s world that the preachers, the healers spend quite a bit of time preaching the word to raise faith and then the Lord is still following His word to confirm it.

Sid: Listen there are so many dysfunctional non-Christians and just as many dysfunctional, using a word from psychology, dysfunctional Christian’s some-things got to be done. How did you yourself realize that just going to church on Sunday and taking a basic discipleship class even in Spirit filled churches wasn’t enough?

Chester: I think the way that we found out is that the Lord began to heal us. In fact our testimony is that He would minister to an area and then after that to explain it to us in the word and then we would begin to help other people receive the same healing and low and behold it worked. But the biggest revelation He gave us is as we were in our early years of Bible College was the need to minister to several different areas sort of in a harmonious or in an integrated way. We call it the integrated approach to ministry and basically there are 4 problem areas all of us are affected with and the Lord Jesus has made a way to get free of each one of them.

Sid: Tell me what those 4 areas are.

Chester: Well we labeled them some sort of jargoning names some short cut names one we call Sins of the Fathers and Resulting Curses which comes out of 2^nd commandment. For example in Exodus 20 verse 5 about the iniquities of the fathers being visited unto the 3^rd and 4^th generation of those that hate God really in rebellion and involved with idolatry of one sort or another. So that’s the first area the

• 2^nd we call Ungodly Beliefs which really is an encouragement out of Romans 12:2 to have our minds renewed. And we’ve found that we really need that we think we know the word, we think we’re thinking on God but it turns out it might not be the case for most of us. And
• the 3^rd area we call Soul Spirit Healings some people would call this inner healing but it’s basically positioning ourselves with the Lord Jesus and come and heal the brokenhearted. He’s eager to that today if we will do what He asks us to do.

And to sort of answering your earlier question we find all of God’s promises are let’s say the vast majority of them are conditional promises. And so what we’re really teaching people is how to meet the conditions of those promises. And so when we deal with these first 4 areas…

Sid: Excuse me what was the 4^th?

Chester: Well I’m about to explain that.

Sid: Okay.

Chester: When we deal with the first 4 areas we really are recovering what we reveal to as legal ground or place; we use Ephesians 4:27 from demonic oppression. And I’m not saying possession I’m saying oppression and so we can deal with the 4^th area which is to get rid of anyway that we’ve opened the door or our ancestors have opened the door to demonic oppression.

Sid: Now if someone doesn’t deal with the first areas you mentioned then it’s from what I’m gathering it’s more difficult for them to be set free of that 4^th area “Demonic Oppression.”

Chester: Yes I think that a person particularly anointed in the deliverance can probably drive out demons no matter what but the disadvantage of that is that they usually come back in because the person has not taken care of the sin area that have given them place…

Sid: Wait it gets even worse for according to the Bible it not only come back in oppression they come back many times worse. Betsy and Chester I noticed an interesting similarity in both of your lives. Betsy was adopted and Chester your father died when you were 2 years of age.

Chester: Right.

Sid: And I’m just wondering if God used the obvious hurts that both of you had in developing this ministry.

Betsy: He certainly used them in my life. I felt as a result of the adoption that I didn’t belong and I had many issues around that. And the Lord first… as the Lord began to heal me first He began to heal me out of the word and out of Psalm 139 which talks about how He was there when we were formed in our mother’s womb and I realized that it was His plan and I wasn’t just a mistake or an accident. And then later before I knew that the Lord really spoke to us I was praying with a friend and had a wonderful vision of somebody standing there with a brand new baby. And I was totally just amazed and didn’t know what was going on and as I watched I realized that the person was in fact Jesus and the baby was in fact myself and He was saying to me “I’ve always had a plan for your life and I’m so excited that you were here and I have so much for you to do that’s part of My kingdom.” So the Lord began to heal me and then eventually there was even a restoration with my birthmother. And I think that sometimes I think that the Lord uses the events of our life to bring healing when there’s love and healing purpose. And so out of those things the Lord began to show me how much He wanted to make Himself known at a heart level to me. And I think Chester had another really amazing experience.

Sid: Well Chester what I’ve noticed as many people whose fathers are absent through death or just emotionally detached do have a lot of challenges in life. How did you establish this love relationship with God?

Chester: Well you’re right I pretty much grew up a loner and felt like a rejected person and sure enough that’s what I experienced. But after Betsy and I’d gotten married we were riding over to the beach one day from our home there in Gainesville, Florida and I was laying in the back of the van on a bed and I just praying along and God had just really get our attention and draw us back to Him. And I didn’t really know what I was doing but suddenly I just had this awesome, I don’t even know how to describe it, but just a Father’s presence and it was just like Father God revealed Himself to me as my father in some ways that I cannot explain healed many many many of the hurts that I had because of that rejection. I just laid there in the back of the van and wailed I guess for about 5 or 10 minutes a wise woman that she is just kept driving but it just totally revolutionized my life and I have never struggled since then with the issues that we now know that many other people do with issues of “Have I done enough today to earn God’s love, am I clean enough to get into the kingdom?” I mean all of these kind of issues that are really works related just got taken care of for me.

Sid: Betsy very quickly about one person that was ministered to through your seminar, through your book and what happened to them very briefly.

Betsy: Alright I’d like to tell you about just a testimony that came in today as I was talking to a ministry team the couple that lives in another nation she was sexually abused by her father and had not seen him for 12 years. After she went through the ministry she writes and says “I saw my father for the first time, of course many memories were there but he faced up to everything and was willing to talk; I had already dealt with forgiveness and so we were able to begin a whole new relationship.” She also mentioned that her husband who had been a rage-aholic had not had an outbreak of anger not had but one outbreak of anger since he went through the ministry. And she said at that point he stopped and asked my forgiveness; I am no longer afraid of him she said this ministry works thank you for giving us the tools that you’ve given us.

Sid: What are you finding with marriages?

Betsy: We are finding tremendous restoration of marriages. We use a format of starting with a joint session when we work with a couple for a week. We start with a session with that couple, ask them what their joint issues as a couple and then we take them through each one through 15 hours of individual ministry and then we come back and we talk about where do we go from here with God’s help.

Sid: But you know many people will be able to go to your seminars but the majority of our listeners will not that’s why I’m so you put together a very large a 400 plus page workbook called “Restoring the Foundations.” In which it deals with the 4 problem areas that we discussed and how to get set free from them but one of the suggestions that you make is that a husband and wife might want to go through this workbook together and then minister to one another I think that’s wonderful.

Betsy: Well we’ve had such encouraging reports of people doing that and being able to minister to each other and finding a real measure of God’s freedom through it.

Sid: Betsy we’re out of time…