It's Supernatural

Sid:  Now the thought crossed my mind, we spend at least some more some less a third of our life sleeping.  What if while we are sleeping and we’re in that receptive state we could hear so clearly from God in dreams and get direction for perhaps for disasters that are coming in our life.  For instance I have friends that live in Israel and especially when the suicide bombs were going off and their believers before they would leave their home they would have to hear from God.  What if your dreams you had the ability to understand, but I have to be candied with you I’ve interviewed many people that have taught on understanding dreams and they talk about symbols and one symbol means this and another symbol needs that.  And to be honest with you I’m such a pragmatist that if I don’t know its God I don’t want to speculate but I do want to know if it’s God.  And so I kind of laid a lot of this aside, but then I got a hold of a Course by Mark Virkler.  He’s been a guest several times on Messianic Vision and he has designed and his gift to the Body is teaching.  He has to first learn a principal for himself then he uses it for himself then he teaches it to other people.  And he’s just come out with a three CD set, it’s actually five sessions titled hear God through your dreams plus a workbook that will cause you to be able especially in the times that are coming to know what God has for you.  To be just like my Jewish Believing friends in Israel to know whether they should take a bus or not; to know whether they should even leave their apartment or not.  What a wonderful thing, Mark Virkler, how did you get into understanding dreams and were you just like me?  Where you someone that is so pragmatic that you would have these symbolic dreams, not have a clue what God was saying and so just forget them all unless they happened to be literal?

Mark:  Well, Sid I got into dreams because I met a remarkable individual.  I was up in Toronto teaching…

Sid:  No but even before you met him, what was your attitude towards your own dreams?  Were you like me or did you try to understand them or what did you do?

Mark:   Well, I never took them seriously; I just figured it was all pizza you know because it was all just…

Sid:  Oh, you were like me.

Mark:  Just a dream.

Sid:  Just, I don’t eat pizza anymore but that’s okay I can dream about it, go ahead bad joke.

Mark:  Okay and I just didn’t take them seriously because they weren’t rational, they weren’t logical and for me everything had to be logic and ration and reason.

Sid:  Okay, me to that is my biggest asset and my biggest liability but go ahead.

Mark:   Well, exactly when God anoints our reasoning then He can clean it up.

Sid:  Okay, so how did this door open to you so to speak of understanding dreams?

Mark:  Well, I was doing a seminar up in the Toronto area, my seminar on “How to Hear God’s Voice” got done at 5:00 and I heard that Herman Riffle was in the area doing a seminar on dream interpretation, Christian dream interpretation and I found out where he was, he wasn’t very far away.  I went over for the evening session and got introduced to a statesman in the Body of Christ who had walked with dreams for years and years and was teaching principals for how to hear God speak to you through your dreams.

Sid:  Tell me a bit about this because he intrigues me, this Herman Riffle, he’s in Heaven now but tell me about him.

Mark:  Well, he was a Baptist Pastor and he got interested in dreams so he went and got some training on dreams.  He worked with scriptures and he wrote several books on dreams.  He is now, he was ninety-three when he died a year or two ago.  But the Lord spoke to him through dreams, counseled him through dreams, guided him through dreams and we were so intrigued that we brought the person to our Bible School and him teach us and taped him teaching us on dreams many many years ago.

Sid:  Well it was actually as I understand it he had a dream that changed his destiny, he would have never lived to ninety three if he didn’t have this dream and understand it; tell me about it.

Mark:   Well, he had a lot of dreams, one of the dreams that he shares in his book is he’s walking along the side of mountain on narrow path with his family behind him and all of a sudden the path crumbles beneath him and he and his family go down to destruction.  And he wakes up and journals the body and says, “Lord, what does this dream mean?”  And the Lord said this he said, “Herman this private fantasy life that your engaged in, that you think is so carefully controlled, He said, if you do not get off this path that you’re on it’s going to take you and your family down to destruction.  And so Herman repented, he got off that path, he stayed faithful to his wife, the two of them were married and like I said, he died in 1998, he died at 93 years of age.

Sid:  I have no doubt that he would have died prematurely if he did not have the dream and the understanding.

Mark:  Yeah, wonderful counsel from the Wonderful Counselor correcting him keeping him on the path of life.

Sid:  After you began to study his lifetime of revelations on understanding dreams how long did it take you to start understanding your dreams?

Mark:  Well, I was fortunate to be in a Bible School where I got a group of half a dozen, dozen people around me and we just got together weekly and we began to share our dreams and study dreams in scripture.  And it really speeds up your growth if you can do it with a group and so we spent about six months, we did three months of training and then three more months of just practicum.  Just coming together and working with our dreams as a group interpreting them together and then at the end of that six months we all felt confident that we were able to get God’s message to us through those dreams.

Sid:  Now you yourself had a reoccurring dream.  And first of all if you have a reoccurring dream what does that mean to you?

Mark:   Well, that means you didn’t hear the message the first time the dream talked to you.

Sid:  Oops.  Ha-ha.

Mark:  Same reason your mother repeats herself or you repeat yourself to your children when they didn’t get it the first time.  And so I had reoccurring dream for about fifteen years of my life and that I had had a stroke in the dream and I would walk up paralyzed, feeling I had had a stroke, I felt bloated, my arms and head and face.  And then I had the elders pray for me once for deliverance prayer what came out was an actual demon of fear of stroke and I had picked that up when somewhere about the age of eight to ten years of age.  I was very close to my grandfather, he died very unexpectedly instantaneously of what I perceived to be a stroke.  It wasn’t quite correct, but that was my childhood perception and I was traumatized by that and demons are not gentlemen so they entered, a demon of fear of stroke entered during that trauma.  And I had a fear of having a stroke for years; it showed up as a reoccurring dream in my heart showing that I had a wound in my heart that needed prayer ministry.  Once the elders prayed the deliverance prayer that demon came out with that same manifestation that I had in the dream.  My wife was in the livingroom, she said that it looked like I was having a stroke when my face was bloated, my tongue was bloated, and it came out and it came out and now twenty to twenty-five years and I’ve never had that dream since then.

Sid:  Mark, what is more important to me is not that you got this revelation, not that you get dreams every week and understand, really understand what God is saying every week.  But can I, can my Mishpochah do the same thing?

Mark:  Yes, every single one that’s listening, you can learn to hear God through your dreams, you can learn to receive His wonderful counsel because He says that He counsels us a night.

Sid:  Wait a second you have dreams at least once a week where God speaks to you so clearly.

Mark:  Yes.

Sid:  You’re telling me that everyone can, once a week now.

Mark:  Absolutely, I guarantee it.

Sid:  Okay, you heard that Mishpochah he guarantees it, I got it out of him.

Mark:  I can give them four or five things that they can do during this series and if they do those four or five things I will guarantee that they will have dreams every week from God where the Wonderful Counselor is giving them counsel to improve the quality of their lives.

Sid:  Now you have many many testimonies of people that have taken your course and what’s happened to them.  Tell me about one person.

Mark:   Alright I’m going to tell you about a lady Susan Perniglia, she developed a Christian Dance School out of hearing God’s voice out of both dreams and also journaling about the dream.  Her husband Salvatore was taking courses with us and they got married, he shared the courses with her and she had a triple dream experience where, she was in nursing school, trained to be a nurse and the Lord redirected her through those three dreams.  She didn’t get the message the first time or the second time, so he made it very clear the third time and she changed her course.  So she got out of nursing school and what the Lord told her that she should become a dancer for Him and set up a dance school.  And that’s what the dream said, so she went ahead, set up a dance school as a result of that.  And a testimony she shares back a couple of years ago it’s called a King and a testimony.  She shares back a couple of years ago, it’s called the Kings dancers, it had grown from four students to One hundred Sixty-five students.  She had nine staff teachers who was teaching it and four different locations in the Albany, New York region.  They offered a variety of dances like ballet, tap, Irish Step, Hip Hop, Flag dancing, banner dancing and prophetic drama.  And all of that was it came out of a triple dream experience where God redirected her and said, “No nursing is not what I called you to, I have called you to be a dancer and to train dancers.”  And she said, “It’s been miraculous how the Lord has anointed it, they’ve done dance for both churches and secular situations.”

Sid: You know Mark the thing that’s crossing my mind right now is in these tense economic times that we’re living in; I believe that scripture is true that says “The wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.”  And what would happen if God were go give a dream to those that are listening right now, redirect their path and in bad times they would do terrific.

Mark:  He wants to do that, He’s dying to do that, He died literally on Calvary so that he could restore that kind of relationship and give that kind of counsel to his children day by day, week by week and month by month.

Sid:  My guest John Fenn is making me red hot for the Messiah, because we’re discussing his book, “Return of the First Church,” and it came as a result of three visitations from the Lord.  And one of the things John you did is you, after the revelation came as to what the first Church was like, what Jesus really wanted in the Church what was missing you began to do research as to how we actually started the way Jesus said, He wants the church to be and how it evolved to what we have today.  I wonder if you’d tell us a little bit about what your research revealed.

John:  Sure, sure.  Well, you know the first thing I noticed was all the homes was represented in the Gospel; all the miracles that Jesus did from the wedding feast at Cana to you know visiting Simon the leper or Zaccheus in his house or all the homes there and of course there was Pentecost.  I really began reexamining the New Testament and one of the things that I noticed was that none of the letters of the New Testament were addressed to leadership, they weren’t addressed to the pastors or the elders or whatever, it was addressed to the church at.  You know when Paul wrote his letters it was addressed to everybody.  And I also saw that when they were problems in the New Testament churches Paul did not say, now you elders should take care of this problem.  For instance in 1^st Corinthians 5 there’s a situation where a man has an illicit relationship with his stepmother and Paul says, and he chastises the whole church, he says you all should have dealt with this.  And then in the very next chapter he talks about two brothers who were suing one another and he says, “This should be settled within the church, the whole body should have handled this.  And so that got me thinking, and so when I started doing the research I realized that for the first nearly 300 years the Church was exclusively in home and that was in times of persecution and times when there wasn’t much persecution within the Roman Empire.  But then in 313, in the year 313 the Emperor Constantine issued an edict that legalized Christianity and over the next few decades what happened was that they began taking over the pagan temples which were set up in the auditorium style and building other buildings, so basically taking over a lot of the pagan temples and turning them into churches.  And Constantine and his successors then called people out of the houses into these former pagan temples into the auditoriums structure that we have today and we’ve been basically stuck in that same structure for seventeen hundred years.  Now what it did was it changed the nature of the relationship from depending on my brother or sister to help disciple me to my relationship with a building, my relationship with a paid clergy, my relationship with a program from that proceeded forth from that building.  And so it started to kill the relationship aspects of Christianity that had begun you know in the home and I’d have to go clear back to Adam and Eve and I’d go back to even Genesis when the Lord appeared to Abraham.  You know when He said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I’m about to do to Sodom and Gomorrah because I know that he is going to train up his children after him?  And then you can see all the way through there’s homes.  And I started realizing this is larger than saying “Oh, this is the way they did it in the first church; this is Genesis through Revelation.  And when we came out of that and came and into what I call the pyramid structure of the traditional church where there is a one head a pastor designated as the one who will be the font of God’s wisdom it made the gifts in the Body actually shut down.  They had no more place to function because they had to be silent and all face the same direction; and all listen to this one person you know be the you know be the spout of God’s wisdom for the day.  Where as in the home church when you’re all meeting together Paul said in 1^st Corinthians 14:26 “How is it brethren when you come together everyone of you has a Psalm a doctrine, a revelation, gifts of the Spirit.”  And so we have come 1700 years in that structure and that’s why in my journey when I looked all over the world, even though churches would say, we’re different in reality they weren’t.  They were all built around the building, the hierarchy and the structure that is just kills true relationships.

Sid:  Okay, how does what you’re saying differ from a good church with cell groups?

John:  Sure cell groups, there’s a huge difference between cell groups and house churches.  One of the main differences is that a cell group is still offered as a program as an option for the members of the congregation.  The main meeting is still the large congregational meeting say on Sunday.  Cells are offered as another program just like the neighborhood outreach, just like Sunday school, you know just like the Singles program and so cells are presented as another thing to become involved in.  In house church, each house church is independent; each house church stands on its own two feet.  Each house church stands on its own two feet; each house church takes care of its own people.  Now we may come together with other house churches and have a congregational style meeting, because you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  There are large congregational style meetings even in the book of Acts Chapter four after Peter and John were chastised by the leaders they called everybody together.  So there are those times for those meetings, but that’s the exception rather than the rule. so cell churches are a program from a traditional church but a house church is an independent entity all by itself.

Sid:  Now, one of the things that intrigue me is the shape that a lot of your groups take, for instance you have one group that meets I think a couple times a month or once a month at Starbucks rather than the home.  Tell me about that.

John:  Ha-ha, in Fresno, California our affiliate there meets in a Starbucks every other Sunday and what really started out as an outreach one of the families in there had a son whose incarcerated in prison and would have different friends that he would meet in prison while he’s serving his term be released and after he led them to the Lord in prison, but have nowhere to go.  And often times these people would go to a living room of a stranger and they certainly would not darken the door of a traditional church.  And so they came up with the idea of why don’t we just be there a couple times a month in a Starbucks on a Sunday morning; and will pray for one another and will see what the Lord is saying and we’ll use it as a means to bring unchurched or dechurched people or people who don’t even know the Lord and bring them in to what we’re doing and hopefully lead them to the Lord.  So it really began as an outreach and a means of discipleship and I like that term unchurched or dechurched because we have a lot of both all over the world.

Sid:  Now another thing that intrigues me is out of the relationships, out of this desire for intimacy with God, hearing God’s voice, and relationships with one another miracles are the natural thing that occurs.  Tell me some miracles that are going on; I understand you have one house church that had someone that was raised from the dead.

John:  Let me tell you about one that’s associated in India with a five year old boy and people say, well that happened in India.  Well, I’ll tell you what, I could tell you a story of Naples, Florida of a young man who had his leg grow out a ½ inch or ¾ of an inch; he’d been in a car wreck and you know it wasn’t so much that I laid hands on this young man, talk about miracles here in the states.  But other members of other teenagers who knew him laid hands on him and they watched the Lord grow this boy’s injured leg out and become straight and the same length as the other and he went leaping and dancing around the room.

Sid:  He was headed for surgery and they didn’t have to operate.

John:  He was headed for surgery, he had been in a car accident, had his leg crushed and they said, “You know we’ve got to wait a little bit until you grow a little bit to do this.  And the only reason I slip this in here Sid, because people have the idea of you know we’re going to meet in the living room and nothing spectacular happens.  They have to understand that when Christ lives in you and you really understand, that anything can happen and that the Lord takes pleasure in moving through the average, quote unquote Christian.  You start thinking what can be, how might the Lord use me.  And that was exactly the case in Deli India with a little boy named, Argon and Argon Doss was his name and this happened in 2001.  And about 6:00 in the evening Argon walked under a live powerline that caught him right behind his left ear and electrocuted him and killed him.  And his parents took him to the clinic where they worked on him for two hours and finally they just gave up and they said, “I’m sorry your five year old, your little boy is dead.  And fortunately the parents were part of a small house church, small group of strong believers and they said, “Man can’t do it through his means, then we’re going to call our church together.  They took his body back to their house and gathered the people together; by the time they could gather everyone together and everything it was 10:00 in the evening.  But one of the ladies, the main lady who came was a lady a 60 year old widow named Sovetre; I want to say her name right.  Sovetre and she’s of the Dalet which is the untouchable in the traditional society.   She was a street sweeper and spent all her life as a street sweeper, but she was a main one who led the prayer and they prayed for Argon from 10:00 in the evening until 4:00AM and finally at 4:00AM suddenly Argon just took a breath and sat up.  Completely normal in every way, he still has a scar behind his left ear, but he was raised from the dead, it’s because of this little house church said, “You know what, we’ll just pray and worship God and really say that Argon time on the earth is not finished and they were determined and after six hours of prayer and worship the Lord brought him back to life.  And it was interesting my friend who went there and confirmed this who is also in house church found out when he was talking to this little street sweeper who headed up the prayer team and he said, “By the way, he said in the last six years that you’ve been a Christian you know how many dead people have you seen raised?”  And she answered quietly sixteen.

Sid:  You know the change that God told you would occur over the next few years where we wouldn’t recognize America?  I believe we won’t recognize Christianity because it will be closer to the book of Acts than what it is now.

Sid:  My guest Kevin Dedmon was a pastor, a burned out pastor, he had a gift of healing when he was a brand new believer and lots of people were getting healed.  But then he prayed for a woman with every fiber of his being that had cancer and she died and then he just flat stopped and could answer any question theologically, but that first love, that excitement it was kind of gone.  And then he went out to the Brownsville revival, got touched by the power of God and was forced to pray for someone and the pain left that person and he realized that what he had as a young, as a teenager had never left him; he had just left what God had for him.  But why Kevin, did you resign from your pastorate and move to Redding, California?

Kevin:  Well, it’s pretty simple I was just hungry, very, very hungry.  I wanted to experience all that God had available for me and I wanted to be part of changing the world in some way.  I wanted to make a difference in people’s lives.

Sid:  I know, but you’re a mature pastor now, successful pastor, a Bible School Graduate, why would you go into a classroom with a lot of teenagers, a few older people, but why would you do that?  Wasn’t that kind of humbling?

Kevin:  Well, it wasn’t humbling because it was a result of hunger and there was food available that I’d not tasted yet and I heard a drum beat.  I heard you know that there was a availability that everybody could do this stuff and I had been trained that you know everybody gets to play.  You know John Wimber taught me for years that everybody gets to play, but it looked like not everybody got to play because God’s giftings only sort of came on specially gifted people.  And I was hearing a message from Bethel, from Bill Johnson that not only does everybody get to play but that everybody is playing up there and everybody’s healing the sick and doing these kinds of things and changing the world.  And I’m only going to live once, I want to get everything I can and I want to walk into my destiny; so it wasn’t really sacrifice so much as it was passion.

Sid:  Okay, well Kevin I understand by what you did you demonstrated the huge hunger you had for God.  What advice would you give to someone that said, “I want to be hungry for God,” but their kind of passive, what can get them hungry for God?

Kevin:  Well, our Pastor Bill Johnson says it like this, “You get hungry in the Kingdom by eating, you get hungry in the natural by not eating, but you get hungry in the Kingdom by eating.”  And I would just encourage people that if they want to step into the supernatural lifestyle that’s available in the Kingdom that they just start hungering after it.  Read the book, get the resources, go to the conferences get the impartations from the people that are already walking in this so that they get equipped, they get empowered and they get activated.

Sid:  Well, I believe that if someone reads your book, “Unlocking Heaven” that hunger, when they see what did with your life, and of course what you do is you don’t keep it to yourself.  You share keys that I’ve never seen before.  Actually Holy Spirit showed it to me and I walked away from it; you talk about the key of singing over someone; I mean no one teaches on that; for the key of how to walk in supernatural joy and you say things about that I’ve never seen before.  In fact I’ll tell you an interesting story, years ago I use to lay hands on the sick and I would find myself sometimes when I was standing in front of someone I would sing over them.  And I would find that the power would increase.  So I kept it up and then I started working in what is known as Words of Knowledge so I stopped laying hands on the sick and I stopped the singing.  But I think I’m going to start the singing again.

Kevin:  Ha-ha, I think you should.

Sid:  Give me one example of where you sang over someone and they got healed.

Kevin:  Well, what I do more than anything is, you know I really try to hear what the Holy Spirit is doing in the environment that I’m in.  You know because Jesus didn’t do the same thing over and over again, every miracle was approached differently and there was a different strategy being played.  And so it’s not about a religious formula or a technique.

Sid:  And that’s why so many people that understand the principles don’t see much fruit because they’re down to a formula.

Kevin:  Exactly and it’s about relationship so.  For example I was praying over a woman in Kirkland, Washington and she had been debilitated for five years.  She had had an operation a simple operation and they had somehow, they had cut into her sciatic by accident and she was basically crippled for five years.  And so I started praying over her and I saw a vision of 10K over her head and a brand new pair of running shoes in her closet and sure enough she had been training for a 10K run and she had the brand new pair of running shoes in her closet and she hadn’t …she was planning on using those for her race right before she got injured.  And so as I started praying over her I heard this song in my head that was actually a secular song by a group called REM which goes, It’s the end of the world as know it, it’s the end of the world know it, it’s the end of the world as you know it and I feel fine.  And so I couldn’t sing that over her because that wasn’t faith.  So I changed the lyrics to this secular radio song and I sang.  It’ the end of your pain as you know it, it’s the end of your pain as you know it, it’s the end of your pain as you know it; you feel fine.  And then I had her sing it and she sang “It’s the end of my pain as I know it,” and when she finished the last note she was instantly healed.  She went home that night, her family loaded up into the mini-van and followed her as she put on her brand new running shoes and ran one complete mile that very night. And came back that next day complaining that her muscles hurt because she hadn’t walked, let alone run in five years.  Ha-ha-ha.

Sid:  You talk about being so saturated with the Word of God and the Spirit of God that you spring links, what do you mean by that?

Kevin:  Well, Jesus said, “Is anyone thirsty,” in John 7:37 “Let him come to me and drink, and then river of living water will flow out from them.”  That’s drinking and leaking and to me that’s what supernatural evangelism is all about.  Supernatural evangelism is about drinking in God’s presence, His passion, His love towards us, His kindness, His goodness that is manifested demonstrated in signs and wonders and miracles and in prophetic insights that call out the gold inside of us that encourage us and comfort us, His love, His forgiveness everything that flows from Him we take in and we drink in.  And then we just as naturally as we’ve taken in that stuff we release it, we leak it out of our lives so that others around us then experience the Father’s passion through us; demonstrated in signs and wonders and miracles and healings, prophetic insights that call out the gold in people.  That call them into their destiny; the plans and purposes, the good plans and purposes that God has for their lives.

Sid:  Well, speaking of leaking you rolled over in your asleep put your hand on your wife; didn’t even know what you were doing because you were sleeping; she had a bad case of hives what happened?

Kevin:    Well, right when we came to Bethel Church in 2002 my wife had been suffering from pressure hives, we really couldn’t figure out what kind of hives they were; she had gone to several dermatologists and they couldn’t figure out what it was either.  But for about six months she had this condition where she would have to get up about two or three times in the middle of the night, take a hot bath just to relieve the pain that she was experiencing.  And we came up here and everybody prayed for her and nothing seemed to be happening at the time.  One night I was just lying in bed and I was sleeping my wife was just writhing in pain from these hives all over her legs.  And I just reached over and I put my hand on her stomach and as I did all of the pain left and she hasn’t had one problem with hives since.

Sid:  But it’s so amazing Mishpochah is the number of creative miracles that are going on with Kevin and not just with Kevin, anyone that he’s been teaching…His purpose is for you to do everything he’s doing and even do greater.  I imagine there’s a certain satisfaction when some of your students outdo you.

Kevin:  Oh yes, I’m like a proud Poppa, you know it’s just like with my Son, my Son and I are constantly sharing testimonies back and forth.  And we get to minister together on occasion and it’s just so fun working together and seeing him just excel in releases the Kingdom on people and activating people into supernatural ministry as well.

Sid:  Very briefly tell me about the young girl in Mexico that was missing a jawbone.

Kevin:  Yeah, we were down in Topeka, Mexico praying for hundreds and hundreds of people.  We probably saw in one week’s time probably 2 to 3,000 people miraculously healed.  And one of the gals came up and she was missing a jawbone.  She had been a car accident and her jawbone was missing on one side so that she couldn’t smile, she couldn’t eat an apple, she couldn’t put any pressure down at all.  And I prayed for her and three months later she emailed and said that she had gone back to the doctor because when she went home that night after I prayed for her she could feel her jawbone growing back slowly all night long until the next morning it was completely grown back.  And she was reluctant to go back to the doctor because she did not know what to say; the doctor didn’t believe her until he got out the x-rays and matched them up and determined that it was exactly the same girl.  And he was an atheist and put on his website for awhile this miraculous thing that had happened to his patient.

Sid:  But this is naturally supernatural and I want you to live a naturally supernatural life…

Sid:  John Paul Jackson, I don’t see how anyone could help but be red hot for the Messiah when they see this DVD were making available this week called, “The Coming Perfect Storm.”  As I said, there are horrible things, very specific that you see happening to the United States, the world in five different arenas but the glory that is coming and it’s almost, and you explain it that as a result of let’s call it maybe warning judgment that is coming, there is going to be a deep repentance and Christians are going to be come real Christians.

John Paul:  Yes, yeah, that’s a good way of putting it, Christians are going to be become real Christians again.

Sid:  And, you know you talked in detail and I asked you before we went on the air to explain it to our Mispocah, but there seems to be a such compromise in the church, and you saw things that are going to be happening as far as exposure, and we were discussing because little by little the church is getting like the world and we don’t see God showing up striking someone down dead, like Ananias and Sapphira we think we can get away with it.  But enough is enough, what is going on?  What is God showing you?

John Paul:  One of the things that the Lord has been speaking to me about is the need to clean up His house and the judgment begins in the House of Lord and if there is warning judgments that’s going to be coming on the land and on the earth in various nations, it’s going to also come on the House of the Lord first and so what God is doing He’s…

Sid:  Well, that’s right God says that judgment begins in the House of God.

John Paul:  Right, so He’s revealing the corruption that’s going on there and sadly what has happened there is an erosion of the God of absolutes.  And whenever you erode the absolutes of God, then you erode a God who is absolute.  When you erode the God that is absolute then there is not absolute one way to get to God and eventually there is really no God that is absolutely God.  So the road to deifying God has been paved with the idea that there’s very few absolutes.  And when you do that, then corruption begins to settle into the church and that’s where we’re at right now, we have a major issue of corruption.  Divorce is as high not only in the church, as it is in the world; the divorce is as high amongst pastors as it is in the world.

Sid:  But it’s condoned, its accepted, the pastor leaves his wife, marries his secretary and he’s back in the pulpit, he may sit down for thirty days.  Something’s wrong with that picture.

John Paul:  There is something wrong and what we’ve done, I believe that we have misused the term grace and have gone over to licentiousness.  Under the guise of embracing grace and the application of grace and mercy we have gone over into licentiousness and that deeply, deeply troubles me.

Sid:  Now you saw sexual perversion being exposed in the church and many people think that well that we’ve seen some of this in the Catholic Church but you’re talking about in the protestant church as well.

John Paul:  I’m talking about in the Protestant Church where it’s not only the issue of divorce it is not only the issue of homosexuality it is also the issue of two other things that are shocking and that is bestiality will begin to be uncovered and…

Sid:  In the church?

John Paul:  In the church, and that will begin to be uncovered. And so what we have, because we have ruled out the absolutes of God then people think that the judgments of God are not longer there; that God’s not looking; God’s not seeing because God’s not acting.  All that is about to change; all that is about to change; when we are longing for a greater glory then we are going to have greater judgment comes with greater glory.  With Ananias and Sapphira there was great signs and wonders that were taking place and therefore there was great and quick swift judgment that was taking place as well.

Sid:  Something that the Holy Spirit has been speaking to you is the woes of 2012, what has God told you?

John Paul:  right well, I wish I would know more I keep hearing I have seen, and I’m not sure that this is actually 2012 or after 2012 but the issues of satellite communication, the issue of planes having difficulty landing because communications goes out.  And communications go out because of satellites that wipe out our communication system.

Sid:  Look, North Korea has got bombs that if they could hit the west coast they could knock out the satellite system on the West Coast.

John Paul:  I wasn’t aware of that, but something is going to happen along those lines.  And I believe that North Korea is far more desperate what I seen and I had a dream and North Korea was far more desperate than most people think of Korea is a small blip on the screen, like nat that just needs to be just swatted away.  But the problem is that that nat, if you want to call it a nat is not thinking clearly, there is something going on in the mind, there is a demonic twisting of thought processes of Kim Jon ll that will cause him to make irrational decisions regarding the nuclear program that he is developing.

Sid:  And could it be connected with the ungodliness of America at this moment that this is happening to us?

John Paul:  I absolutely believe that it is, if the church would take its rightful place, if we would become the backbone of this country again; if we would know how to fight for what we believe, know how to argue without getting angry over what we believe.  If we would know how to make presentation of the gospel and if we would walk in the power of the scripture.  If we would walk in the power that is available to us then people would step back and they would go woe, their knees would knock when we walk into the room.  We would walk into city council meetings, we would walk into government meetings and the leaders would be afraid because they would feel the presence of the Lord with us.  We don’t carry that now, and all we are because of that all we have done is reduced ourselves to another form of logic and its logic arguing against logic.  But God wants to give power to His people, He wants His people to do great exploits and to do that we are going to need to know Him at a much higher level and have a commitment to Him at a much higher level.

Sid:  Do you know what the inner most prayer of my heart is and has been for along time and I have some of my friends that get upset with me over this, but I don’t care, that’s the way I feel; I don’t pray for money.  I don’t pray for expansion of the ministry, I pray for intimacy with God, that’s all I want.

John Paul:  You and me must be the only ones doing that, that’s exactly what I pray for every single day, the presence of the Lord, intimacy with Him.  I don’t pray for money; I’ve never prayed for money, I have prayed for intimacy with Him, relationship with Him because in His presence all provision is found.

Sid:  And I don’t even want the provision, I just want Him, that’s where my heart is at this moment.

John Paul:  Good, I love that.

Sid:  Anyway tell us some more consequences you see as a result of this sin in the geophysical area that will be coming.

John Paul:  One of the five elements of the perfect storm is religion, economics, politics, war and the fifth element is geophysical.  And some of the geophysical things I saw was that, again God is talking, looking at man as mankind seeing mankind as the solution.  So one of the things that is going to have problems is going to be hybrid seed.  Because man has developed a hybrid seed type of, in fact almost every seed that you see out there, the wheat crops, that you’re seeing and everything.  Monsanto and others have developed hybrid seeds that you have to purchase from them and theirs supposedly give you more yield per acre; they supposedly have a bigger seed ect.  But the problem is there is going to come blight on a type of hybrid seed that will keep the seed from germinating.  The Bible talks about first the blade and then the ear and then the full corn in the ear.  And what you’ll see is blades coming through the ground, but you won’t see the ear being developed from the corn.  And whether its corn or its wheat or whether it’s barley or whether it’s oats, there is coming a blight to hybrid seeds and it’s going to create a food shortage.  Not only in the United States, but also overseas.

Sid:  Now, you also talk about a water shortage in the United States in particular.

John Paul:  Right, and I have seen in a vision, I saw thousands of people being evacuated from large cities, not just one, but a handful of cities and maybe more than that, but I saw a handful of cities because there wasn’t enough water in the city to take care of the populations.  So they evacuated people, people left the cities and thousands and thousands of cars, just bumper to bumper cars leaving cities.  Almost like you’d see when a hurricane warning goes out, people were leaving the cities like that because of the water shortage.

Sid:  And you also saw that people moving out of the cities, that’s where the property would be increasing in value because there would all of a sudden be a demand.

John Paul:  There will be a demand and part of what I saw was thistle material, nuclear thistle material hitting one city in particular, which I can’t name right now.

Sid:  I was about ready to ask you, you know that.

John Paul:  But there’s actually two cities that it’s going to hit and that would generate fear for people living in cities and they will rush to the rural areas to by land or buy houses with land.

Sid:  Now, what is this skin sores and diseases that would start appearing on people, what’s that going to come from?

John Paul:  Well, because of some things that are going to be happening in our atmosphere and I’m not a scientist, I don’t want to learn to be a scientist, I have enough on my plate right now, so I don’t understand all the exact terminology.  But there is like a bubble around what I saw in the vision was a bubble around the earth begins to crack there was cracks that formed in this bubble and when those cracks formed rays that use to not get through would start getting through, rays from the sun.  And when those rays from the sun got through it created an unusual type of sore on the skin of people that had never seen this type of sores before; doctors had never seen these types of sores before.

Sid:  Trust me, as negative as this sounds, I got so excited by the time I found out what God’s about ready to do with His people in the midst of what is being described.

Sid:   And as a matter-of-fact my guest, Patricia King is red hot for the Messiah because you know it says in scripture that “To him who is forgiven much, they love much.”  And if I want a descriptive term for Patricia King it’s someone that the love of God just radiates out of.  And I said this on yesterday’s broadcast, but I’m just overwhelmed when I watch Patricia King’s Television Show, and I see her out on the streets.  And as a matter of fact Patricia you take a lot of people that attend your Glory School that have perhaps never prophesied or never moved in Words of Knowledge, or experienced His glory out on the streets with you.  I asked you this on yesterday’s broadcast, but I want to start there today.  I want you because this is radio we will have you on television, but since this is radio I want you to take street experience and tell me about it.

Patricia:  Oh sure, I remember I mean so many are coming to my mind right now but I remember one time our team decided to go homeless because we wanted to relate to the homeless people; we’d been down in that particular area of our city where there’s a lot of drug addicted people and they just weren’t warming up to us.  So we went homeless and just hung out with them and identified with them.  And on that particular day, I met this young gal, she was a crack addict and she was passed out on the street and so we began to just reach out to her and heard her heart.  We just sat there and listened to her heart.  And after awhile of just hearing her heart and when she trusted us we began to share with her the love of Jesus Christ and the power that He had to set her free.  And all of a sudden she began to weep and weep and weep and so we prayed with her, she received Jesus Christ as her Savior and then we prayed against her addiction.  And as we prayed for the addiction this fire went through her body that she actually felt, she said “I feel fire, I feel like hot on the inside, I feel fire!”  So we explained to her, “That is the fire of God’s love that is the fire of His deliverance power burning up the addiction on the inside of you.”  And she said, “Yes, I believe it” and she started to just weep more and more.  Well, at the end of the encounter she was in our arms, you know we had been rocking her like a little baby and she was just so blessed and so assured in the Lord and immediately sobriety came upon her and she was absolutely normal.  She said, “I feel so normal, I feel I feel so wonderful.”  Now, she had come from another state and ended up in the inner city and back on her addiction.  So her family was in another state and she had run from them and now after receiving Christ she wanted to go back to them.  And so she returned home to the state she was from and got reconnected with her family; and she was instantly set free but entered into discipleship.

Sid:  And I would image that that is the major thing that people are saying that attend your Glory School of they understand the Glory of God; the presence of God and the gifts become activated in their life.  There’s some things that are going on in your ministry that I’ve heard of and there are some things going on in your ministry that I haven’t really heard of.  Explain the lightning’s of God.

Patricia:  Well, Revelation 4 and verse 5 says, “Out from the Throne comes flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder.  And so of course a throne room is a Kingdom reality, there is a Real Throne Room with a real Throne with a real Messiah that sits on that Throne and He is real in our lives.  Jesus said, “Pray in this way, Your Kingdom come Your Will be done in the earth as it is in Heaven.  So I remember the very first time that I experienced lightnings was I think back in around 1999 when we were in a room of people praying and waiting on God, and all of sudden, in the room, and this is inside the house came a visible vivid flash of lightning.  And we all saw it and we said, “Oh, my gosh!” And that was amazing; and that particular night six flashes of lightning came and this was visible; we saw it with open vision.

Sid:  Now, when you say we, did everyone see it?

Patricia:  Everyone saw the light, in fact there was one skeptic in the room who said, “You know maybe it’s not an actual lightning, maybe it’s an electrical short on the light in the natural, you know like the light in the room.”  And so we ended up to just test it out, we shut down all the electricity in the room and just had some table candles on the coffee table and that was all the light that we had at the end of this; and the lightning still came in and so we determined that this was a real lightning from God.  And we asked the Lord, “Lord what is this?” Because that was the first time, we didn’t know what the lightnings were about.  And He began to reveal to us into our thinking thoughts about natural lightning and He said, “As it is in the natural, so it parallels what with is happening in the Spirit.”  And in natural lightning, what happens is that there’s an actual shift because of the lightning that brings things into alignment in the atmosphere.  So the negative ions and the positive ions, I’m not, you know sure how it all works but lightning actually freshens the air; because it brings things out of order into order.

Sid: Well, speaking of out of order into order, tell me about that church that had lightning hit and within that week sin was exposed in the leadership.

Patricia:  Yeah, actually it was about two months after that first encounter we had with lightning, I was ministering in a church and we were just doing a conference, we had been invited in to speak and as we were sitting down at one of the sessions and the Pastor got up in pulpit to give announcement and to introduce us.  All of the sudden the appearance of those lightings came out it was a flash of light.  Not everyone in the room saw that, but I saw it and two other people on our team saw it, we looked at each other and we thought “Oh, my gosh, what was that you know?”  And when we were praying about it afterwards we talked to the Pastor about it and we said, “You know we saw lightning flash on you when you were up on the pulpit,” and we explained to him what we learned about the lightings.  And we said, “You know sometimes, it brings things that are out of order into order,” and we did not know that the Pastor was in sin.  But we told him we said, “This is what God calls for that things out of order to be brought into order.”  And within one week of that lightning flash there was an exposure of sexual sin in that pastor’s life and so it brought cleansing to the church.

Sid:  I’m wondering if we are going to see a lot of that because it appears to me that we have a generation of Christians here in the United States of America, North America that are not that concerning about holiness and living in sin.

Patricia:  I know it’s so vital Sid, that we align ourself with the righteousness of God because we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus; so we need to manifest that.  And I do believe that there is going to be some strong dealings.  I know that a number of months back the Lord spoke to me a Word concerning appropriate discipline that when sin is exposed there needs to be appropriate discipline and repentance or else increase lawlessness will come.

Sid: I see that many people where sin is exposed and the whole gospel is forgiveness but there has to be repentance and they can’t just you know a month later, go back into ministry.

Patricia:  Exactly, I agree totally.

Sid:  …Tell me about when a person goes to the week Glory School in person what are some of the things that people leave with?

Patricia:  In the Glory School, we teach a life in the supernatural; how to live in the invisible kingdom of God with supernatural ability and empowerment; interaction with the Holy Spirit; following Him into all kinds of Devine encounters and Glory encounters; including how to discern angelic presence; and understand from the Spirit what they are doing and how to access by faith through scriptures and the leading of the Spirit Throne Room encounters.  And so students that come learn a strong foundation of the Word concerning who they are in Christ and what they have in Him according to Covenant.  Because as you know Jesus came and cut a covenant for us on behalf of men with God that is an eternal unbreakable covenant full of promises for us to walk in.  So the Glory School teaches us how to walk with Holy Spirit into the Glory dimensions of the Kingdom of God.

Sid:  Now many people that have never moved in the glory realm that have never had Third Heaven type experiences, once they take your school and your classes, this is normal.  This isn’t just the superstar is it?

Patricia:  No, all the Word is for all of God’s people and it says in Deuteronomy 9:29 “The secret things belong to God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever.”  And so when the scriptures are revealed to us God expects us to encounter it and so the Glory School teaches people how to encounter what is revealed to them by the Spirit in the Word.