It's Supernatural

SID: The year 2000 was one over thick year for you. I mean, Joan went through a devastating divorce. Her husband went into the gay life. She’s responsible for her children. In 2000, she hit bottom, financially. Nothing. In addition to everything else, she develops cancer. Tell me about that.

JOAN: That’s a lot to put in about a minute. But yes, it was an absolutely horrible time in my life. Two days after the divorce, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. It taught me how to get healed and whole. And I went after God because the doctors gave me no hope. The CPA gave me no hope. The counselors gave me no hope. They said there’s no way you’re going to recover. And it was such a devastating time in my life. And so I would go before God and just say, “God, I can live without a breast, but I can’t live with a broken heart.” So I went after God to heal my heart and heal me of broken heart syndrome. And long story short, God healed me of worry, betrayal, abandonment, worry, I know I said it more than once, but it needs to be repeated ten times because I was worried what was going on. How would I ever make it if anything ever happened? And when I got free of all of that in my heart, I went back to talk to the oncologist, now what do we do? And so in the process of two hours on the examining table, they looked everywhere, left side, right side, everywhere, up, down, in between, on my back, everywhere that they could look and the cancer was gone.

SID: If God had not revealed to you what to do, how to handle it, do you believe you’d be here today?

JOAN: No.

SID: Give me an example of how you prophesied to yourself.

JOAN: I’m laying on the table and I’m thinking, I have four good reasons to live: Charity, Spice, Melody and Abigail, my girls. And as I’m laying there and I’m like, no, I’m going to live and not die, and I’m going to share the works of the Lord, today I choose life. And I started prophesying over my life that I’m going to live and not die, and declare the works of the Lord. I am healed.

SID: Do you say it with a vengeance or do you say, I’m going to live and not die. How do you say it? Give me an example of how you said it to yourself.

JOAN: I said it, I said, actually I went, “Bam! Bam! Bam! Bam! Wake up!”

SID: So you did it with an attitude.

JOAN: I had attitude in my faith and my mouth into alignment. No, I’m going to live and not die and do the works of the Lord. Now when I’m praying for people with cancer and they say, [mumbling], I say, oh no. I want you to say this: “I’m going to live. I choose life until I believe it.”

SID: Tell someone with cancer right now to do that, right now.

JOAN: Right now, I am prophesying over you that today is your day of turnaround. Today is your day for giving your cancer an eviction notice. It’s trespassing on God’s property and you are going to live and not die, and live to declare the works of the Lord. Hallelujah. Say, I receive. I receive. Repeat. I’m going to live and not die and declare the works of the Lord. I choose life. God is speaking to you. He’s speaking it to you in church services, as you’re listening. God, what should I give, whether in church, whether it’s supernatural. God is speaking to you and you can hear him say whatever amount he tells you.

SID: And you know what? When I think it’s God, I do it just in case. I don’t want to miss God. Do you? Tell me about the quarter you found.

JOAN: This is so exciting. I love this. And God speaks to natural things and he’ll give you a prophetic word. So when you have something happen in the natural, say, God, you want to speak to me about this. And but the other day I’m going through the security, and I’m on my way to Haiti and there’s a TSA agent like right there fully loaded with everything, all the badges and everything. And she’s right there. And so I look down. Right behind her is a quarter and I’m like, argh, there’s a quarter. It’s not a penny, it’s a quarter. I don’t need a quarter. I’m not broke by any means. But it’s just a fun thing to do. So I go down a little bit further and then there’s a penny. I thought, well at least I got a penny. It’s not a quarter, but at least I got a penny. I wasn’t going to mess with her. Can you see that I want to get the quarter? I’m not going to do that. So in a few minutes, literally in a matter of moments, they say, “Everybody stop.” Well if somebody says that and they’re an authority at the airport, your hands go up, yes, okay, I’m good. I’m not reaching for anything. Yes. They said, “All of you have to go back through.” So we went back through and she had moved. And I walked there and I thought, that quarter is mine. I was so excited that the quarter was mine. So I of course picked it up for fun, which is once again for fun. So I’m walking to the gate and I said, “God, what are you telling me?” Now this is for you, too. What are you telling me with that quarter and with the situation? He says, “There are many things that are hid from you, many things that you can’t get because of barriers, because sometimes you can’t even see them. There’s a blockage. There’s a dam, so to speak. But some of you could see, maybe an inheritance that had been stolen, inheritances that have been withheld from you.” He says, “But I’m clearing the way so that anything that you have lost, whether you know it or not, is going to come back to you. Inheritances are going to come to you.”

SID: If you will only believe all things including inheritances are yours. One word from God could result in a million dollars. In fact, Joan did this at a meeting and it resulted in many millions of dollars. We’ll be right back.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest Joan Hunter has opened her mouth and said one word and this one word has resulted in millions of dollars. Can I have her open her mouth for you now? I always love to have Joan Hunter as a guest because I go beyond Joan. I knew the Happy Hunters. Your parents literally had over a million healing miracles. They had, they used to call it healing explosions.

JOAN: Healing explosions.

SID: All over the world. I mean, it almost seemed the older they got, the more hunger they had to see the miraculous, and you had that same. You’re building on their shoulders. You’ve been in ministry, what, 45 years?

JOAN: Forty-five years now. Hard to believe.

SID: So for those that don’t know you and your parents, tell me one miracle that comes to mind.

JOAN: Oh that’s really hard. But in regards to the overseas trips, I remember being with them in Bogota, Colombia, and all of a sudden, all these wheelchairs started coming up to the platform. To see all these coming it’s like, it was just like they kept passing them forward and there would be another row of them being passed forward. It was like, these people need their wheelchairs. No they don’t. I mean, just so many incredible things have happened and to see the millions of people that got the baptism of the Holy Spirit, millions of people that got saved.

SID: By the way, we need that again. You told me there is an increase of the supernatural all around you.

JOAN: All around, all around. Okay. Yes, where I’m concerned, I’m going into, I mean, incredible, incredible miracles are happening. I’m like shocked if somebody is not healed, and it’s like—

SID: Did you hear that?

JOAN: And what’s so awesome is that I pray and God has given me so many incredible words in regards to the area of healing that I lock the healings.

SID: That’s all part of prophecy.

JOAN: Yes it is. And it’s like I prophesy everybody in the room is going to get healed, and pretty much 99 percent of everybody, everybody in the room, are immediately they get healed. It’s absolutely amazing. Fibromyalgia, doctors can’t treat it. Cancer, cancers are falling off, all kinds of important things.

SID: Tell me something fresh. Tell me a miracle that’s recently happened.

JOAN: We’re going to dance all over the platform, on this one here. But I was recently in Arizona, and this lady came up to me, she had a 3000-pound piece of equipment fall on her head over 20 years ago. I can’t believe she’s alive. But what happened is this fell on her, it crushed all of the discs in her neck, busted a bunch of her vertebrae, then it went down in her neck, then it went down and destroyed a lot of her vertebrae and discs in her back. In addition to that, there was so much pain and pressure that it caused her head to actually compress. I don’t know how she survived. I really have no clue how she survived. And so I prayed for her and I put my hands on her neck. She didn’t have a C-curve, which is a natural thing you’re supposed to have. So I put my hands on her neck and I said, “In the name of Jesus, I command her C-curve to come back. I command all of the vertebrae in the neck and discs to be restored, and in the back, height to be restored.” Because if you get compressed you shrink. So she grew like three inches in front of me. Everybody around was going, wow! But her head had compressed. So I said, “In the name of Jesus, I command this head to return to the proper size.” And it went [brrr] right in my hands. That was awesome. That was, you can’t describe what happened to me.

SID: And you know what? That’s just the beginning.

JOAN: I know.

SID: We’re moving, I believe we’re moving into such creative miracles. Everyone knows about Joan Hunter’s healing ministry and miracle ministry. But when did this prophesying start?

JOAN: I’ve been actually prophesying for probably 15, 20 years, maybe even longer than that, not really knowing what it was. I would just hear something and I’m like, do you have a shoulder problem, which, yes, is the word of knowledge, but it’s still hearing, and all these different things, and it was just developing hearing the voice of God.

SID: You told me that your parents, as much as they knew, as experienced as they were, were in awe over the gift that God had given you.

JOAN: That’s because they have experienced the abuse of the prophetic. Like somebody walks up to you and says, “God told me that you’re to give me a computer.” No. No.

SID: I’ve had that happen.

JOAN: I have, too. And I go, “When God tells me to give you the computer, I’ll give you the computer.”

SID: The first few times I didn’t know that, and I just gave it.

JOAN: I’ve had, I don’t care. But it’s kind of funny. But 30, 40 years ago, people were really abusing it. And so it kind of got put on the shelf in the Christian world. And now God, over the last ten years, is bringing it back up, recognizing the prophets, recognizing the apostles, recognizing just plain, not just prophecy from the prophets, but honoring prophecy one on one.

SID: Well the fact is the average believer thinks that’s just for the fivefold gifted people, the people on TV, the superstars. But you say it’s not only for everyone, but it’s simple.

JOAN: And see, and that’s the prophet rather than prophesying. There’s a difference. A prophet is called to the nations. It’s called to the churches, whereas coming to prophesying, longing, desiring to prophesy is going to the grocery store and prophesying over that. And it’s like, I prayed, God, if you’re real, send somebody to give me a Word today, and that’s you. And that’s you. What an amazing opportunity we have here to speak on behalf of God, to share.

SID: You get pretty excited about that, don’t you?

JOAN: I get excited.

SID: I can’t think of anything more exciting than hearing God’s voice and being used by him. And the fact is it’s for everyone. Now when we come back, you’re going to find out how by understanding how to prophesy, which is for everyone, not only saved Joan’s life, but someday may save a loved one’s life. We’ll be right back.

Sid: I’m speaking to Gary Carpenter at his office in Tulsa, Oklahoma and Gary an Engineer by training truck driver he got saved in 1980. Then about a decade later he wandered into Dave Roberson’s church in Tulsa, Oklahoma and God just arrested him and told him to…well he didn’t tell him to do this but he understood that he must pray in unknown tongues to release the mysteries within him so that he could perform what God had called him from the foundation of this earth to do. And He had been almost floundering for that decade and so what he decided to do was to pray 10 hours a day in tongues while he was driving his truck.  And sure enough after that first session he had a clear visitation from the Lord. And then on February 1994 an audible voice from God called him into full time ministry he was disobedient and for the next 10 months and as a result the door was open for the devil because he was out of God’s will so the devil had a free shot at him and he almost died on December 4^th 1994 but he came to his senses he went into full time ministry God performed a miracle and healed him. And however he was still disobedient and God said “I’m giving you 3 scriptures say them over and over again for what was it 4 hours Gary.

Gary: For 4 hours a day.

Sid: You didn’t do it you almost starved because you weren’t working and you didn’t have money you had over $25,000 in debt. So finally you started doing this and what happened.

Gary: It’s funny I don’t know what it is with me and 10 months but about 10 months later I was doing everything but obeying Him about speaking those verses out loud my mind just could not figure out how that would help anything. Just speaking those words into the air how could that change anything? But the instructions were very clear after 10 months I had nothing to lose the way I describe the way we were at that moment it was like my toes were hanging off the edge of a chasm looking into a bottomless pit of bankruptcy there was just nothing else to lose.  So finally I decided I better obey Him.  Now I don’t know if anybody has every tried this saying just 3 verses saying them out loud over and over again for 4 hours.

Sid: It’s a very difficult thing it sounds simple but the body does rebel the mind does rebel.

Gary: It was the hardest thing, it was took me…those first hours seemed like 3 days I just couldn’t get over how difficult this was. Plus my mind was assaulting me with “This ignorance, this is foolishness, nothing will come of this.” But again I had nothing to lose (Laughing) so I did it. And you would think in those 4 hours I can’t describe to you how difficult it was to make it and I was hoping that the heavens would open and an angel or something would appear and Jesus would ride up on a white horse and would be financially delivered.  But I got to tell you at the end of that 4 hours there was absolutely nothing. Well that was Day l I did it again the next day Day 2.

Sid: For those that are tuning in for the first time what were the four scriptures…the 3 scriptures?

Gary: It was Psalms 34:10 and 2^nd Corinthians 8:9 and Philippians 4:19. And I just said those over and over. Well Week 1 goes by with very little change, Month 1 goes by and I’m still doing it every day with very little change. It was several months I wish I had kept better records I’m thinking maybe 4 months. Looking back at it now I can teach very well what was happening during that 4 months.  It says “Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.” I had been raised in a denomination that engrained in me from a child that if you’re going to have God you also had to be poor. And even though my head didn’t believe that any more my heart still did. And what God was doing looking back on this whole process in hindsight He was taking His word and by me speaking it over and over again He was renewing my mind into believing what the Bible says and not what I had been taught in the denomination. After several months of doing that one day I don’t know how to describe this this is the best way I know how to try something somehow on the inside of me I stepped over some kind of line. And suddenly I knew that God was not a God who loves poverty, He was not a God who likes lack, suddenly I knew that as long as I sought the Lord I myself would not lack any good thing. Suddenly something changed deeper than the mind, something in my spirit crossed over the line and I came home that day with the fire in my eyes and I told my wife I said “We don’t live there anymore.”   And what I meant by there was in the kind of situation we had been in for so long.  And I got to tell you Sid you can mark it on a calendar that was the bottom of our roller coaster ride when it comes to finances. Suddenly my mind and my spirit was open to understanding more about our God and His true nature and the Holy Spirit began teaching me. But then came even more difficult instruction.

Sid: It sounded pretty difficult I mean I know people are saying “What’s so difficult saying 3 scriptures for 4 hours.” I know it’s difficult what’s so difficult is praying in tongues for 10 hours a day I know it’s difficult.

Gary: That’s right.

Sid: But you’re telling me even more difficult what was that?

Gary: Well I tell people all the time you know that when they first hear Dave’s message on praying a lot in other tongues most of them come to the prayer center with the same they say the same thing they say “Well my problem is I can’t hear God.”  But after they’re there for a while and if they do the message they’re going to have a bigger problem than that and there problem is going to be “Oh my God I’m hearing God and You’re not going to believe what He’s telling me.”

Sid:  And I don’t want to do what He’s telling me although it’s the best thing in the world for you and your peanut brain doesn’t realize it.

Gary: (Laughing)

Sid: So what did He tell you to do next?

Gary:  Well and again I have to for the sake of time as He began giving us instructions to teach the word of God and of course we made tapes now. Now by the way when we began our entire equipment for Gary Carpenter Ministries was a 20 year old Panasonic tape recorder and a $10 bill that was our entire assets.  Well as I began to teach I would tape those recordings onto cassette tape and people began asking for the copies of those tapes. Now here’s where His instructions come in now again this is what He told me and I’m not telling everybody this this is what He told me. He says now “Number l: don’t take up any offerings from these people.  Number 2:”

Sid: Can you picture a carnal believer hearing something like that?

Gary: I didn’t believe I was hearing something like that.

Sid: Ah.

Gary: (Laughing) I didn’t know any ministry that operated like this. He also said “When you give them copies of the tapes do not charge them for the tapes give them away free. He says “When you start mailing out tapes” And again I was thinking just these few tapes that we were ministering to at the time he said “Don’t put a return envelope in the package.” And I’m going my Lord can it get any worse?

Sid: What you’re telling me is God’s putting you in a position where if He doesn’t come through you starve.

Gary: Absolutely and He was intending that you know things are very clear with 20/20 hindsight.

Sid: Of course.

Gary: I see what He was doing now He got me in a position where I had to learn how He functions in the earth when it comes to Kingdom finances.  And it was not like I was taught in the prosperity message and it was not like anybody around me had taught me I had no pattern.

Sid: Tell me how long it took you once you had this revelation to get out of $25,000 in debt?

Gary: Oh from the day when I walked in where I was different I believe it was not more than 60 days we were out of debt.

Sid: You’re not asking for money you’re not even sending an envelope. Do you realize that you’re doing everything wrong the fundraisers would pull their hair out over you.

Gary: I know and the last instruction was the worst one. He says “Oh never let a human being every know any of your needs.”

Sid: Oi vey!

Gary: Because I am your source and if you will precisely obey these instructions of mine I will speak to the hearts of the people I choose to support you and the needs of the ministry.

Sid: How long ago was this?

Gary: That was in 1995.

Sid: Has He?

Gary: Has abundantly, He has abundantly.

Sid: Just out of curiosity how did you get out of debt so fast?

Gary: (Laughing)

Sid: I know that it was supernatural but how?

Gary: And again I kind of hesitate and again people says “Well that’s the way He’ll get me out of debt and He has infinite ways of dealing with every person.” In our particular case we owned a rent house for 13 years and the people had remained there the same family had been there the girls had grown-up in that rent house we had wanted to sell it many times but this faithful little family was there and we just couldn’t bring it to tell them well move we want to sell the house. Well now I see it as God’s grace because right about that time they called me and they said “Our daughters have gotten to the place we have to have more bathrooms than this house has we hate to tell you this but we’re going to move.” And I was very nice to them but on the inside I was going “Praise the Name of Jesus (Laughing). And to make a long story short again we sold the house. The proceeds from that house by the way when we walked away from the closing I brought that check home and laid it down beside our debt and the debts were $70.00 more than the check that I had brought home from the closing. And I just thought “That can’t be God because…

Sid: It sounds like a mistake (Laughing).

Gary: “He’s a God of more than enough.” This cannot be right so I hesitated on what to do for a few hours the mailman ran that day in the mail we got a check for $80. I put the $70 with the closing, the check from the closing we paid off every debt that day put it in the mail. We had $10 left I took my wife out to get hamburgers and we celebrated.

Sid:  My guest by way of telephone is red hot for Jesus his name is Gary Carpenter.  I’m speaking to him at his office in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Gary had been saved for a long time and he had started out in what was known as “Word of Faith Teaching” and it just wasn’t working until one day he went into a church, Dave Roberson’s the pastor of in early 90’s. He listened to Dave’s revelation of what happens, what changes occur in an individual that is Spirit filled and prays for hours at a time in unknown tongues. Based on this challenge at the time Gary was driving a truck he decided that when he was in the truck he would pray in unknown tongues. I mean the first time you did that Gary how long were you able to pray?

Gary:  A typical shift for a long haul trucker is 10 hours on 10 hours off. So my first shift praying in other tongues was 10 hours if you can believe that.

Sid:  Now was that difficult the first time?

Gary:  Was it difficult (laughing)? After about the first… I started off with great gusto with a voice of authority, and speaking rather loud. After about the first 2 hours would you like to know what I had received?

Sid:  Sure.

Gary:  A dry throat and a very sore tongue.

Sid:  Oh my. You know a lot of people would have stopped after that.

Gary:  Well again I had studied the message that Dave had taught for 6 months checking out every verse, checking out scripture. I had listened to cassette tapes I would take them with me on the road during that 6 months and I would listen to them again and again. I would check out every scripture. I was convinced that Dave was right. So the only change I had made because Dave had told us that God’s not hard of hearing. He said you can pray softly and He hears you just as well. So what I did after the first 2 hours I lowered my voice about a normal speaking voice like I’m doing now and I would just pray. Now that first day I have to tell there were times when my mind would drift and suddenly I would become aware that I wasn’t praying in tongues anymore. I don’t know how long I had not you know 5 minutes, 10 minutes who knows. Well I could do was say “Oops! I’m sorry Lord I’ll begin again forgive me.”  I’d start again, now after while it to where my mind wouldn’t drift much like that and I was able to continue praying in other tongues…

Sid:  Now what happened after doing that that first day did anything unusual go on with you?

Gary:  My life… that day was the beginning of the complete change and revolution of our entire lives. Not just for me but for my family, many people that receive our tapes. Now this part is important because nothing happened I didn’t hear God say anything, I didn’t have any visions, I didn’t have anything until sometime during sometime between the 9^th and the 10^th hour.

Sid:  What happened?

Gary:  Thank God I didn’t quit…

Sid:  (Laughing)

Gary:  …after 7 hours, after 8 hours (laughing).

Sid:  Listen there are people listening to us that have been praying in tongues for 20 years and have never prayed in tongues more than 1 hour in their life.

Gary:  And I know I was one of those. I always thought it was nifty that God would give us these supernatural languages but I never understood what they were for until Dave Roberson taught me. Anyway, you asked what happened. I had what I call a teaching vision, let me describe to you what I mean by that. Now thank God when you’re driving an 80 thousand pound big rig through downtown Memphis during rush hour that it wasn’t the kind of vision where everything goes away and you’re transported to another realm.

Sid:  Out of curiosity had you had this type of a vision previously?

Gary:  Not really.

Sid:  Now you’ve been saved for at least a decade, right?

Gary:  That’s right and what scares me now is that I had the teacher living in me all that whole decade but I never knew how to activate His teaching gift until Pastor Dave taught me.

Sid:  So what happened to you?

Gary:  Suddenly I had what I call a teaching vision and the best way I know to describe it is this. I could still see what I was doing, I could see the traffic, but you know how you can remember a scene from a movie, it’s like most people have seen “Gone With the Wind.” You can recall various scenes from that movie even while we are talking now.

Sid:  Sure.

Gary:  It’s very much like that, it’s almost like a memory, it’s almost like a movie playing across the screen of your mind, but you can still see with your natural eyes and comprehend with everything that is going on around you. Well in this vision, and I’ll just briefly describe it, I saw these ellipses like up in the sky, and I saw a man standing on a flat plane of the horizon. Written on those ellipses or circles in the sky were wonderful things like: health, faith, love, joy, peace later I learned He was describing the fruit of the Spirit. The man was looking up at those things from earth and he really wanted them bad he wanted and needed all of those things. As I’m looking at the vision he’s jumping and reaching but there’s no way he can reach up into the sky. I mean they’re there, they are obtainable but not by him because he has no way to get to where they are. They’re in heaven he’s on the earth. In the vision suddenly lines, just like pencil lines almost, were being drawn from these circles down to the man. When they reached the man then the contents of the circle like love began flowing down the line to the man and he was receiving all of those things. I’m going “What are those lines? What is that?”

Sid:  I want them (laughing).

Gary:  I’m watching this unfold before my very eyes. Suddenly on every one of those lines and that word was “Faith.”  By faith you receive from God’s grace. Suddenly all that teaching that I had heard for so many years about the faith message and what faith is, and all the definitions suddenly I understood it in a way that it was personal just for me. It was like the Holy Spirit had designed this vision to communicate it to Gary Carpenter in a way that Gary Carpenter could personally understand it. From that day to this I have never been the same. I know how to receive from my God.

Sid:  Now February 1994 you heard an audible voice from God what did He say?

Gary:  Well He didn’t come as teacher that day He came as Lord (laughing). What He told me was this, He said… I was on a regular trip and He said “This is to be your last trip as a truck driver. When you return back to Tulsa I want you to give your dispatcher 2 weeks’ notice, he will not require it of you and you will be free to serve me full-time. I’m calling you full-time into the ministry.” That was pretty much the message whether it was actually audible I don’t know but it sounded to me like if you had been in that cab of that truck with me you would have heard it.

Sid:  Did you immediately tell your wife and quit your job?

Gary:  I absolutely did not tell my wife?

Sid:  Why?

Gary:  (Laughing) Well my wife is very much a faith woman and led of the Lord with all of her heart and had she known she would have been after me to obey Him.

Sid:  Oh I was thinking the opposite okay (laughing).

Gary:  Yeah it’s not what you think my wife is… the Lord has told me more than once that her heart is even more His servant than mine.

Sid:  So you were afraid to tell her because she would make you do it. You mean you were even hesitant about doing if God told you to do this?

Gary:  Oh I was absolutely hesitant.

Sid:  Why?

Gary:  My real training is in engineering and I’m a very pragmatic person as you know, like you say you are and I imagine you are. We have not met yet I hope to meet you soon, but can I be real can I be honest?

Sid:  Please.

Gary:  I’m going…

Sid:  I mean there’s too much hype and junk out there it’s about time we be transparent.

Gary:  He’s basically calling me full-time into the ministry there’s only one problem with that…

Sid:  What’s that?

Gary:  What ministry (laughing)…

Sid:  He didn’t tell you what?

Gary:  He didn’t tell, and this is the principle now I didn’t know this at the time I know it now in hindsight. You can forget about asking Him about step 2 until you’ve already obeyed what He told you in step 1 (laughing). I started begging the Lord I started saying “Well Lord how am I going to feed my family? We have rent, we have car payments…”

Sid:  Did you have children?

Gary:  At the time… I do have 3 daughters but at the time none of them were living here.

Sid:  Okay.

Gary:  They were grown.

Sid:  Hmm hm.

Gary: But still we had all the normal expenses like everybody else has the electric company they like to be paid every month…

Sid:  Did you have much in savings?

Gary:  Oh no (laughing) hardly any at all and we were in debt and most of it was junky debt. I mean credit card bills and just typical Americans you know.  I had not… He did not say a word about how any of that was to be paid. He didn’t tell me even what He was going to have me be doing. He just said “You’ll be working full-time for Me” that’s all that I knew. I kept begging and asking and talking with Him every day “Well Lord how will we eat? How will I pay my rent? How will we make the car payment? How will we keep the utilities on?” The silence Sid was deafening (laughing). It was deafening. He never said anything to me about that.

Sid:  Alright so He didn’t answer, you didn’t answer, you didn’t quit your job, did you feel bad about not answering that?

Gary:  I felt really bad, I felt really bad. I did answer Him I didn’t answer Him in words I answered Him in my action. I said “No!”

Sid:  But 10 months later, in fact I know the exact date December 4, 1994 you were driving in the state of Arkansas on a cold foggy night and what happened?

Gary:  Well let me preface to what happened with this, because many people think when I tell you about what I am to say many people think the Lord did this to me and He most certainly did not. Safety for any sheep is to stay very close to their shepherd and if He’s leading down a certain path if the sheep wants to stay safe he needs to be staying close to where He’s leading.

Sid:  You know some people say to me when they hear of a Jewish person called to Israel they say “How can this be with all the unrest that’s going on there?” What they don’t understand is if that person is called to Israel and they go to Israel they’ll be safer in Israel than they’ll be in the United States.

Gary:  Oh absolutely I believe that with all of my heart. As you long as you stay close to Him that is the place of ultimate safety, that is the place of protection.

Sid:  Gary I hate to do this to our Mishpochah but I want you to pick up on what happened on that date.

Sid: I’ve got on the telephone a man if you are interested in research about the Jewish roots of the New Testament, about the Jewish conspiracy, and yes I say conspiracy, that has Jewish people worldwide to not even consider that Jesus is the Messiah. I have in my hand the “End of History Messiah Conspiracy” by Philip Moore. Philip is a researcher for Hal Lindsey, he spent almost 8 years in Israel, he spends 12 years gathering the data for this book. As a matter fact Philip Moore how in the world as a Gentile did you get such fabulous quotes from the Talmud in this book?

Philip:  Well I actually bought my own copy. I got tired of going Emory Theology Library and I just bought my own copy and started reading it.

Sid: As a matter of fact on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking about the conspiracy, and let’s call it for what it is, the conspiracy about the Messiah that the rabbis did. You told us there’s a little city in Israel by the name of Yavne. There was a meeting of the rabbis and they had to do something about all these Jewish people that were turning to Jesus. So they figured out a way by the traditional prayers in the synagogue to put a line that says “You’re a heretic if you believe in Jesus.” Anyone that was silent when they would make that statement they knew they were a believer and they would put them out of the synagogue. But did the persecution get even worse than that?

Philip:  Yes there was a guy names Aquila, I’ve got him mentioned in chapter 8 in very good documentation who created an actual… who retranslated the Jewish Bible the Greek translation that was held sacred by the rabbis he retranslated his own version and changed the word Messiah, changed the word virgin. So there were retranslations, there were…

Sid: Philip you can’t answer this but I’m going to ask you the question anyway. How does a man that has a rabbi someone that… today I understand it’s the blind leading the blind. I’m not blaming the rabbis today they don’t know better, but the ones that changed the Holy Scripture I mean our people were so meticulous to make sure every jot and tittle was the same, how could a rabbi do this?

Philip:  Well if he thinks he’s saving his people from assimilation and destruction…

Sid: But this is the word of God! How do you tamper with the word of God?

Philip:  Well very carefully. I would not dare to (laughing) and I don’t think you would either, but there have been people that have decided the unjustifiable means let’s retranslate these prophecies and let’s make alternative translations and alternative interpretations. I document many… on about 50 different pages I’ll show the original Hebrew at the top of the page, then I’ll show the English translation of the prophecy, then I’ll show the ancient rabbinical commentary what the rabbis believe and that this prophecy is about the Messiah. Many times they mention the word Messiah in their own commentary whether it be about…

Sid: But you say this has all been zipped out, deleted, to rewrite history by the rabbis, but you have in possession the ancient rabbinical statements before there was prejudice about Jesus…

Philip: That’s right.

Sid: …and the ancient ones clearly say that these prophecies talk about Messiah. Then I love what you do, is you then put the modern approaches and it doesn’t bare any resemblance to what ancient rabbis thought before there was prejudice.

Philip:  Yep there are a lot of books out there, the one’s called “The Real Messiah,” one’s called “You Take Jesus I’ll Take God.” You know I’ve seen rabbis just ready to hand it to me and I’ll say “Wait I’ve quoted that and I’ve read it in where he says that this is not the Messiah your Targuman Talmud your ancient commentaries did say it was.” We have as Samuel Levine said “Created a new status quo” we just returned to the old one, the one held by the ancient rabbis…

Sid: So who’s closer Orthodox Jewish rabbis today or Christians to the ancient rabbis?

Philip:  Definitely evangelical Christians and Messianic Jews and we’ve got the commentaries to prove it.

Sid: This book that I have… you’ve got the goods (laughing) you really do Phil. To help the Mishpochah that don’t have the book in their hand yet. Let me tell you Mishpochah it took him 12 years of research and obviously God’s hand has been upon him. It’s 1200 pages fascinating reading, why don’t you take one of the Messianic prophecies and explain it to the Mishpochah from the Old Testament translation, to the ancient rabbinical commentary, to the New Testament revelation, to the modern rabbinic refutation or rewriting… what do they call them revisionists?

Philip:  Hmm hm.

Sid: You know there are a lot of revisionists when it comes to the Christian history of the United States. I’m concerned about the revisionists within rabbinic Judaism. Show me one of them.

Philip:  Well on page 198 I’ve got…

Sid: Wait a second I’ve got to… I’ve got to find it there fellow. 198 I’m not a researcher like you, okay I got it.

Philip:  Okay I have the Hebrew at the top and of course the translation into today’s English it says “But the Lord was pleased to crush Him.”

Sid: This is from Isaiah 53 verse 10. Go ahead.

Philip:  Yeah verse 10 right “But the Lord was pleased to crush Him. Putting Him to grieve if He would render Himself as a guilt offering He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days and the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in His hands.” Now the commentary to that says to that in the Targum, the Targum to Isaiah.

Sid: What is Targum mean?

Philip:  It means actually translation, it’s in a sense a Jewish commentary. They would in Aramaic in the ancient synagogue they would actually give a partial interpretation into the text and they would actually interpret the text and they were called the Targums. There’s a Targum South, and Targum Onkelos different ones, but this one which my source for this is by Reverend B. Pick PhD and it’s in the Hebraic and Jewish source it’s called “Old Testament Passages Messianic Applied by the Ancient Synagogue” it was done back in 1886. On page 267 of volume 1 of that they reproduce the Targum to it, it says the Targum to Isaiah 53:10. The targum reads “My servant the Messiah in whom I am well pleased.” Now of course Matthew in chapter 3 and 1^st Peter identify that with Jesus that He was the Messiah that would suffer for us and it would all be well and many quotes for Isaiah 53.

Sid: But what do the modern rabbis have to say?

Philip:  In the very next column on the same page I have a modern rabbinic comment refutation under that title. I quote a fella by the name of Gerald Sigal who wrote quite a large book I believe there were 400 pages published like a Targum it says… it’s called “The Jew and the Christian Missionary.” In this he wrote quote in this verse, and I’ve got it in brackets Isaiah 53:10. He’s talking about the whole chapter of Isaiah 53 but certainly this portion also. Then I started to quote him “Again the prophet reiterates in bold terms”, I’m not very good at reading maybe you should read that.

Sid: “A basic Biblical concept in suffering there is purification. Thus there are times God presents crushing personal challenges to His most loyal followers in order to strengthen their spirit. No poor person is born pious or righteous. The words of Isaiah “If He would offer himself as a guilt offering” do not mean that the servant offers himself vicariously as a guilt offering for others, thus Isaiah 53:10 cannot and should not be applied to Jesus.” So who is this Gerald Sigal that goes against the ancient Targum written by the rabbis that were closer to the shekinah glory of God, which most rabbis say “We follow the Talmud” because they were closer to the glory so why can’t we take that with the Targum? I mean you can’t have it both ways rabbi, you agree Philip?

Philip:  I agree.

Sid: Anyway you have… I mean I’ll tell you something I am so excited to have your book because anytime any Jewish person says to me “Oh that passage is not referring to the Messiah” talking about a prophecy about the Messiah I can show them the ancient rabbis before there was prejudice involved absolutely knew it was talking about the Messiah. Something else, I mean this is kind of left field but I just want to skip right now Philip. You have some research that you’ve gathered on Christopher Columbus, briefly tell me about that.

Philip:  Well there’s a lot of evidence that he was Jewish, I mean I have conclusive evidence one of his letters has the beit hey up in the left corner.

Sid: Explain the beit hey.

Philip:  Those are 2 Hebrew letters B H meaning b’ezrot haShem, b’ezrot is to help with the help, haShem the name literally with the help of God.  It was an ancient Sephardic Jewish greeting that only a Jew would use on a letter I believe.

Sid: Did you think Columbus could not only be Jewish but a Messianic Jew, a Jewish believer in Jesus?

Philip:  Well he had this special book he kept with him at all times that explained Jesus from a Jewish viewpoint and proved it was also given to a rabbi of that era proved that He was the Messiah according…

Sid: That Jesus was the Messiah?

Philip:  Right from a Jewish standpoint it would prove it. So why would he be so interested in such a publication if he wasn’t… and his mother’s name was Shoshana, which is a Jewish name. Barbenell was Jewish he was the one more or less who secured his voyages with the king. He would not put this beit hey on the letters he would send to the king and queen because they were killing a lot of Jewish people at that time and he didn’t want them to know he was Jewish. I’m sure he didn’t want the Catholic Church or at least the establishment to realize that he believed Jesus in a fundamental way that he expresses some of his writings I’ve quoted and reproduced. I’ve got a quote from the radio church where John Hagee has also pointed out he believes that Christopher Columbus was Jewish…

Sid: I wonder if one of the reasons this has been one of the most blessed countries the world has ever known in all of history is because it has not only been found by a Jewish person but it’s also been a haven for Jews.

Philip:  I believe you’re absolutely right because I believe God would such an explorer. I have some quotes from some obscure writings that he was very interested in prophecies and that’s why he set out to find the New World.

Sid: Philip Moore our time is up.