Archive for August, 2014
Our Guest Eric Carlson
Sid: I’ve been explaining all of this week about the One New Man and how we just got back from Siberia and we saw multitudes of Jews and Gentiles come to the Lord. But more important than that when we went to reach the Jew first the whole city opened up we could evangelize more Gentiles. I mean logic says “Go to the Gentile first.” But God says in Romans 1:16 says “Go to the Jew first.” And that was not just the historical order although it was the historical order Jesus went to the Jew first; God went to the Jew first. Abraham. Jesus said “I go only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Paul said “I go to the Jew first.” You see this was God’s spiritual order to reach the world. If the church would only get wind of this one little nugget and this and so much more about the new wine skin that’s coming the new move of God’s Spirit is available in my latest book that’s called “The Race to Save the World.” …we are going through 10 days of prayer and fasting because it’s the Biblical festival of Rosh Hashanah, Feast of Trumpets, and tonight begins Yom Kippur, Day of Atonement. Which Jewish people throughout the world are praying and fasting, and the fast begins tonight for our sins to be forgiven and our name to be in the book of life. What a time to be in agreement of prayer that Jewish people in the synagogue have visions of Jesus and they’re a part of this great prophecy in Amos that’s says “When the house, or tabernacle, or family,” it’s all the same in Hebrew, “of David is restored.” When the Jewish people are restored to God it will trigger the greatest Gentile revival in history. Eric, this is Rabbi Eric Carlson associate with Messianic Vision as well as, the rabbi of One New Man congregation. Eric would you teach a little bit about Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur?
Eric: Oh I’d love to because these are such fantastic times. Rosh Hashanah is the New Year and sometimes people get confused because the Bible says that in the month of Nisan at Passover that’s the New Year, and we are also a New Year in the month of September, or the 7th month, which we know as Rosh Hashanah. There’s actually 2 and the spiritual beginning is during Passover, and this during Rosh Hashanah is the calendar, or the agricultural New Year. At Rosh Hashanah begins the new planting season and the new agricultural season for Israel. This is interesting because in the scriptures for Rosh Hashanah, for the New Year, it’s in Leviticus 23:23. And it t says “It’s a day of commemoration and it’s a day of sounding the shofar; it’s called Yom Turuah; Yom is Hebrew for day, and Turuah means a great blast or shout. But it’s interesting because the scriptures never say what this commemoration of the sounding of the shofar is about. And the shofar is relation to calling to God. Psalms 47 says “God’s glory descends on the sounding of the shofar.” And when we sound the shofar many believe that it’s getting God’s attention; that we’re seeking Him and He turns and looks when we sound the shofar. Those of us who are grafted in, those of us who have the blood of Yeshua wash away known no more this is really fantastic because we know what this celebration was about. And what this commemoration is because in Matthew 24 Yeshua talks about that when He returns He will come with the angels before Him with a great sounding or a blasting of a shofar. So we know what this commemoration is about; we’re rehearsing for the return of the Messiah. What a glorious thing to celebrate, I mean this is what we’re all looking for is the return of the return of the Mashiach the return of the Christ. So when we celebrate this we sound the shofar and we look forward to that great angelic cloud in the heavens announcing the arrival of Yeshua when He returns with that great sounding of the shofar. And also the old rabbis teach that at the sounding of the shofar because it when the devil, when ha-saton, the devil, when he rears the first blast of the shofar he thinks it’s just us crazy Jews blowing the shofar because the Lord commanded us to do it in the Bible. But the second time he doesn’t know if it’s us or the Messiah returning so he flees at the sounding of the shofar. So God’s glory comes at the sounding of the shofar, Yeshua return at the sounding of the shofar and the enemy flees at the sounding of the shofar. So what a great time to celebrate and sound the shofar and to come together as the One New Man and rehearse for the return of the coming of the Messiah.
Sid: You Know Eric I’m having a thought as you’re sharing right now and my thought is you have such a powerful anointing as you blow the rams horn, the shofar. I would like you to blow that shofar now and when you blow that shofar I believe that the devil will flee, sickness will flee, depression will flee, and there’ll be freedom. Because Messiah came to set the captives free and then I’m going to pray for people to receive the Siberian anointing which I feel just moving on me right now. So Eric if you would blow that shofar
Eric: (Sound of shofar)
Sid: In Yeshua’s Name I command all evil sickness to be bound and to leave; I command healing, I command healing in the back, in the spin, in the neck and in the head, every area of your body all pains go! I command healing in the heart; healing, cancer you’re evil and in the Name of Yeshua I command you to leave. Diabetes I bind you evil diabetes and I command you out in Yeshua’s name. Arthritis you’re a thing of the past, you evil arthritis you leave, insomnia you leave God’s people you have no place. I thank You Father God for the authority that has been given in Your Name in the Name that every knee must bow, every tongue must confess. And I say to you that everything that is not of God I bind every sickness, every spirit of depression, every spirit of insanity I bind you in Yeshua’s Name and I command you off of God’s people now. Next I command you to be healed in Yeshua’s Name. Now Father God pour Your Spirit pour the Siberian anointing on Your people. Father we are so hungry for You, we are so thirsty for You now, now in Yeshua’s Name. Thank You oh God, Thank You Lord. Eric there’s such a flow of God’s Spirit it’s like the river that Ezekiel saw. Ezekiel said that wherever that river went there was healing and the river of healing is flowing to God’s people right now. Tonight begins Yom Kippur Day of Atonement. What does that mean to you as a One New Man Messianic Jew Eric?
Eric: Well, again this a time of great celebration. In the Orthodox Jewish Community, Yom Kippur is a time, a very solemn time, a time of prayer and actually a time of concern. “Is my name written in the Book of Life, will I make it into heaven? But the scriptures tell us that we have a Kippur which means purge in Hebrew, our sins have been purged! We have had the ultimate sacrifice, we have had the blood of Yeshua wash away our sins to be known no more. And if you said that prayer and if you have received Yeshua as your Lord and Savior this is a time for exultation and joy!
Sid: You know Eric as you’re sharing the way you see this biblical festival, so many people copy rabbinic Judaism and even in the Messianic Jewish congregations they copy so much rabbinic Judaism it’s about time to have freedom. And that’s what God is saying, I’ve come to set the captive free and these biblical festivals are times that God promises to be in attendance! That God shows you they are rehearsals of the future of what God’s going to do in the future. Rehearsals of the great acts of that God has done in the past. How in the world will we ever provoke a Jewish person to jealousy by using Greco-Roman festivals with good spiritual meanings when you could use the exact shadows that God said to have forever? Again it has nothing to do with righteousness, it has nothing to do with salvation, it’s got to do with the blessings of God and the coming together of this Jew and Gentile for this great One New Man anointing. Mishpochah Charisma has just published my latest book it’s called “The Race to Save the World.” And in this book you’ll find out how the Rabbis’ have lead the Jewish people astray and how this happened. Now many today may love God but they are deceived, and then in the church itself you’ll see how church fathers in their anti-Semitic stance have literally moved the Gentile church astray. Now the truth is there is enough truth in the Gentile church there is enough truth in Messianic Judaism that God will use these two vehicles as it is between today and the time that Messiah returns. But haven’t you sensed in your heart of hearts that there must be something more. That’s why I’ve written this book the coming together of Jews and Christians to form the One New Man.
Our Guest Patricia King
Sid: My guest Patricia King is red hot for the Messiah; and we are featuring this week her amazing kit. You know Patricia so many of us; no I’ll tell you what I’m going to rephrase that question differently. If you knew what you taught in “The Create Your World Series” when you were a baby believer what difference would it have made?
Patricia: Oh my gosh, Sid the keys that are taught in that course are so significant that it will literally change your world. The life that we’re living right now we actually create it you know for the most part by our belief systems; by the words we speak; by our actions. The earlier that you get to know this in your walk then the more that you can create with intentionality as you partner with God.
Sid: But what about; here’s my concern I know people that have been sitting in the church for 50 years Spirit filled churches and don’t have a clue about the keys that God’s revealed to you. Is it too late for them to change their atmosphere and fulfill their destiny?
Patricia: It’s never too late Sid and you know a lot of times people just think “Well, I’ll just wait for God to show up or I’ll wait for God to do something.” But it says in the Bible “That the heavens belong to the Lord and the earth belongs to the sons of men.” And He’s given us the earth to steward and He’s given us our life to steward and He gives us promises that we can live by and create with in Him.
Sid: Well, you are known for someone that walks in supernatural love. Now I have to tell you that I have a pet peeve. You walk into church and the pastor says “Well everyone stand up and you hug one another and you tell them that you love them” and you don’t even know who they are. And it’s like what is this? That’s not love; that’s just words.
Patricia: Yeah, you know we have to be more than words. It says in 1st Corinthians 13 1 to 3 that we actually have nothing; that we are nothing; and it profits nothing if we don’t have true love. And then it defines what true love is you know and 1st Corinthians 13 is a well-known passage of scripture and it’s easy to say but another thing to do. And I think Sid that first of all we have to know that He loved us first; when you understand that you are love beyond measure; that you are loved unconditionally by God. And you understand the love that He shared when He died on the cross for our sins; where He offered us new life then you can begin to let that life flow out to others. You can create a world create a whole realm of love everywhere that you go if you’re intentional about that.
Sid: You know I think that every true believer would like that but they don’t have a handle on how to do it. What would you say was the turning point for you?
Patricia: Well, I think Sid one of the things that made me understand love more than any other time in my life and seasoned me in love. When I went through a long season of pretty hefty persecution, and it came on some very high levels… there was a lot of people you know speaking very negative and very bitter things against me and publicly and everything. And it was a time when I thought “Lord I don’t know what to do.” He said “I just want you to love.” And I was really discouraged one day and I said “Lord, I just want to love I’m doing my best to work these things through and process the best I can with those that are in opposition but I don’t know what else to do.” A part of my spirit rose these words “I declare war.” I thought no I don’t want to declare war I just want to be at peace.” And the third time “I declare a love war.” And I realized what God was saying; He said “What the world needs now is love sweet love.” And when you look at the journey that Jesus had in His life; He was opposed on every side but He never ever failed in love. He never lost love; he never withdrew love. And the Lord said “Are you willing to embrace my sufferings because they’re love sufferings or are you willing to love those to the nth degree to bless them, to under-gird them when they are doing the exact opposite to you?” And He said “If you will do that, if you will do that you will have the foundation of the Kingdom within you which is love.”
Sid: Tell me about the homeless man that put all these words to a test.
Patricia: You know Sid this is really embarrassing in some ways because as a Christian minister you want to you know proclaim love. One night this is a number of years ago, I was doing a meeting and I have this homeless young man kind of follow us around. He came into our meetings and he had a lot of BO and his teeth were rotten; his breath was bad. And I mean everything about him just wanted me to… you know everything in me wanted to reject him. And one night I saw him come through the door into the meeting and I thought “I’d just slip into the prayer room for a moment.” And I slipped into the prayer-room and shut the door so that I would isolate myself from him. And from in my attitude inside the prayer-room I thought “Oh good I made it; you know I got away from that guy.” And the Lord nailed me; you know sometimes we can you know just be in such a rotten attitude and think it’s okay. And He said “If you continue to reject him he will become more reject able to you; but if you will accept him he will become more acceptable to you.” And I was convicted to the core and I went out there and he was actually standing at the door waiting for me. And I looked at him and I felt so much compassion and love I invited him to sit right beside me. And he was so happy to do that.
Sid: Now did you really feel the compassion of love or were you really just trying to be obedient to what you realized God wanted you to do?
Patricia: When I looked at him that night I saw him through the eyes of compassion because I was so convicted by what I had done. So it was a choice plus it was coming into a connection of how much God loved him. So I invited him after the meeting as well to have coffee with some friends of mine and he sat down and had coffee with us. Over time he became a really good friend. I remember even the next week after the coffee time he came into the meeting the following week he was all dressed up he had bought a suite at the second hand store and he was all dressed up and he had a big bible under his arm and declared that he was a man of God. You know we just loved him through the coming months and after a number of months actually he came to me and said “Patricia I got a job, I got a job.” And the job was outside of our city; he actually had to move to get the job and we were all so sad because we had come to love him that much. And it all happened by choosing to accept him rather than reject him.
Sid: Do you know, if you hadn’t operated in love he could have gotten offended eventually and went right back into the streets and his life would have been totally wasted.
Patricia: Exactly. Love is so important Sid. We’ve seen love. Just a little bit of love filling a person who has love deficits can totally transform their life.
Sid: Tell me about your work in Cambodia and Thailand with the sex slaves.
Patricia: Yeah, a number of years ago the Lord led me to go to Bangkok and He said “I want to show you some things about sex-tourism. And I thought “Okay, I’ve never heard about sex-tourism before.” When I go there I realized that there are children and young boys and young girls being exploited for the purpose of sex trade; people were coming from all over the world to buy sex. And it just broke my heart; in fact I was so overwhelmed I remember sitting in a bar with a young girl and she looked so young; she looked about 15 years of age or something. She shared her story with me of how she had been sent into Patia to work at the bars by her own parents. And she went there as a virgin and was prostituted out and she had tears filling up her eyes and it just broke my heart. But it overwhelmed me and I thought “What can we do?” And love will always have an answer; when you’re overwhelmed when your heart is overwhelmed when you go to God who is love He will give you an answer. So He gave us a little project to work on; we went into the bars one night and sang some love songs and some special music. We asked the brothel owner if we could be the entertainment for the night and sing some love songs on Valentine’s Day and she said “Yes.” And they were Jesus love songs we didn’t tell her that but we just went in and sang. And through the atmosphere changing because of love; because of creating an atmosphere of love we were able to reap a harvest that night where a number of girls gave their lives to Jesus Christ. We went back, it gave us so much encouragement that we went back a number of months later and hosted a love feast for the girls in the brothels for 120 girls. We set up a beautiful hotel; a beautiful meal; we went out to the bars and bought girls out of the bars for $30 for the night because the brothel owners wouldn’t let them go unless we paid. We sat them in this banquet feast and told them how much God loved them. For the most part most of them had never ever been told that ever. Over 80% of the girls that night gave their lives to Jesus Christ because of love; because they felt love. A number of them left the bars that night never to return again. We were able to get them into programs but from that night the Lord continued to propel us in love to rescue little children. Which we work a lot with children at risk now delivering them out of the sex trade putting them in proper homes; getting their health back up; educating them. And it was all propelled by love.
Sid: And you know the thing that is so amazing to me is your whole series “Create Your World by Changing Your Atmosphere.” You literally, not only get them out of the sex trade, not only get them saved and disciple, but God is giving you tremendous business ideas. Do you have a big background in business? And these business ideas are supporting them now.
Patricia: I don’t have a business background; I have a nursing background. After I left my nursing career I went into full-time preaching and ministering on the missions fields. But a number of years the Lord spoke to me that He was about His Father’s business and He showed me how we can actually change the atmosphere of communities and nations by establishing businesses. So the first business that we started in Cambodia was with a bag of soap Sid.
Sid: Hm.
Patricia: You know we were in a very poor area; people were selling their children because they didn’t have money to feed…
Sid: Oh, I’m so sorry this is so fascinating to me…
Our Guest Jonathan Bernis
Sid: On yesterday’s broadcast I was speaking to my good friend Jonathan Bernis. You’re familiar with him perhaps you’ve seen him on television “Jewish Voice with Jonathan Bernis.” We were talking about when… how many years ago was that we used to pray in tongues and supernatural languages Jonathan?
Jonathan: Sid we’re coming up on 30 years; it was 1984, 85, 86 so…
Sid: So we used to get together for days of prayer and fasting and praying in tongues. And you started doing things that frankly you didn’t understand and I didn’t understand. As we got deeper into praying in tongues you started travailing like a woman in childbirth and we didn’t even know what was going on. But when you pray in supernatural languages you are prophesying your future. And by the way the devil doesn’t have a clue. And I’m reminded of another experience Jonathan we had. We both went to a camp meeting with Kenneth Hagin, and he called us forward and he prophesied over me in English. And then he prophesied over you but what happened to you when he started to prophesy?
Jonathan: Well the power of God came all over me and He began to speak in other tongues, in other languages. I believe that he was prophesying directly to my spirit. And it could have been about the call to Russia; the Jewish people in Russia in the Soviet Union. But I knew that something was going on it was bypassing my mind. Frankly Sid maybe what he was saying if I had processed it with my mind I would have been in unbelief but because it came out in other tongues it went directly into my spirit and released faith.
Sid: But I found it interesting; he did that because he did not want the devil to even hear this word. I’m convinced of that and the presence of God I mean you were out; you didn’t even… I had to tell you what happened because you didn’t even know what was going on.
Jonathan: I know.
Sid: And actually, I’ll tell you when it was; it was January 26, 1995. Let me read to you and mine was in English. And this is what he prophesied over me. “Earnest sincere desires, hungry in your spirit will be satisfied. Fulness, fulness, fulness ability imparted on to you.” And then he began to laugh (Ha, ha, ha, ha) “Stand the test, win the battle, do the work, great work. Many will be gathered, many, many, many, many.” And you know what? I have found since that point when he started doing (Ha, ha, ha, ha) that when I pray in supernatural languages when the prayer has gotten to heaven and it really has gotten through I start speaking ha, ha, ha, ha. And I know that I’m laughing at the devil you don’t have a clue of what I’m saying Mr. devil you must be going mashuga, you must be going crazy. (Laughing)
Jonathan: That’s right and I begin to laugh hysterically sometimes when something’s been broken in the spirit. And then it materializes in the flesh; it’s an amazing thing. First in the spirit and then in the natural.
Sid: And you had to raise ridiculous sums of money to bring all the people from the United States to the former Soviet Union and do these big Jewish concerts and dance festivals and outreaches. I’m convinced again you were even prophesying the money that would come in for it. And you had it come in in a very supernatural fashion.
Jonathan: Absolutely true and I’m sure that that was the case. Sid when we had our first outreach. You remember that big beautiful hall like the Carnegie Hall of St. Petersburg? When I rented that hall I had no money; no money at all. No money for the hall rental, no money for the advertising, no money for the plan tickets, no money for the hotel, no money for the sound and lights; nothing, nada. And through prayer, and I belive much of it supernatural and other tongues, I got a call from someone that I’d never met that ended up paying for 80% of the entire event. One person; never met him and he heard about me and called me right before I left for Russia.
Sid: But I got to impress on those that we’re mentoring right now if you and I some 30 years ago did not spend days praying and fasting and speaking in supernatural languages I don’t believe these things would have happened. I mean when I walk around It’s Supernatural Ministry and I realize that we have state of the art and the buildings all paid for and we’re all over the world and we’re going now into the Spanish language and we’re in the Russian language all over the former Soviet Union. And we’re in the Farsi language and I say “Who could possibly have believed that?” But Jonathan you said that there was a second key in addition to speaking in tongues that triggered your faith. What was that?
Jonathan: Sid let me just say this “Without faith it’s impossible to please God.” And I don’t think that anything of lasting value; I’m talking about that which remains after the wood, hay, and stubble is burned away happens any other way than through faith. Unless the Lord build the house those who labor labor in vane; and that is built through faith. The second way that we can build faith and hear from God and release things prophetically and see creative miracles is through the word of God. Confession of the Word of God Roman’s 1:17 tells us that “Faith comes from hearing and that hearing by the word of God.” Now that verse has the hearing twice in it. And that’s not by accident; I don’t want people to miss this. There’s two kinds of hearing everyone; there’s hearing with the natural ear and there’s hearing secondly with the ear of the Spirit. And the gateway to the ear of the Spirit is the natural ear; we confess the word of God; we confess the word of God; and eventually we hear it with the inner ear of our spirit. And when it gets into our spirit it releases faith; faith is built up. And when we confess it again it’s creative it has force. And it becomes what we decree drops into the natural realm when we see it come to pass.
Sid: Let me read a prophesy from Malachi chapter 3 verse 16 & 17. It blew me out of the water when I read this the other day. “Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another and the Lord listened and heard them. So a book of remembrance was written before him; for those who fear the Lord and who mediate on His Name they shall be Mine.” There’s that meditating again.
Jonathan: Yeah, that mediate; that word mediation is different than the Christian concept of meditation. The Christian concept of meditation is to reflect with the mind. But the Hebrew which is Haga and that should be familiar to Jewish people listening we have the Haggadah which is to tell the story of Passover. It’s to confess; it’s to confess; it’s to groan; it’s to sigh to mutter; to speak forth. And when God exhorted Joshua to be strong and to take the land. He said “To mediate confess; speak forth on my word day and night and if you do that you’ll be successful and you’ll take the land.”
Sid: Now, let’s go to this beautiful coffee table book “Confessing the Hebrew Scriptures with a CD inside and it’s called “The Lord is Peace.” Take me through this.
Jonathan: Okay Sid this is a work book that’s what I call these; these series on confessing the Hebrew workbook. It is a beautiful bound book that would be a great coffee table book; with beautiful restful pictures. And so on the back there’s a CD; you put the CD in and you begin to follow along in the English and then the Hebrew. And then I employ a technique a system I learned growing up in synagogue called “Transliteration.” Very few Jewish people can actually read Hebrew anymore so our prayer books have this transliteration which is phonetically sounding out the Hebrew in English so we can read along and be part of the prayers in the synagogue. Well I’ve employed that method to this workbook; so without any study; without any knowledge of Hebrew in 5 minutes you can be confessing scriptures related to this name of God, Jehovah Shalom, or Adonai Shalom. Peace, rest, breaking through anxiety, fear and so on. And you’re actually confessing the word of God in the Hebrew language along with a Hebrew speaker on the CD with beautiful music in the background. And Sid by doing that you’re speaking in the tongue of the prophets; scriptures that directly combat anxiety, fear, tension, depression. And the word shalom is related to completion, the wholeness and it actually drops into your spirit eventually. You’re building faith, it actually changes you; I promise anyone that will actually put this to work will be changed in a week.
Sid: This is brand new but you’ve had a similar one out on healing; but you know what this combines both of them because as you explained the word shalom completeness. Complete in your spirit, in your soul and in your body. So every area of life and this day and age we’re living in many feel as the Orthodox Jews do that we’re in the footsteps of Messiah. And everything that can shake is going to be shaken and if you have built into your spirit the shalom, the completeness of God no weapon formed against you can prosper. But what types of feedback did you get when you did this several years ago? What types of healings and testimonies did you get?
Jonathan: Well, we had some great testimonies Sid; we had people that were completely delivered; supernaturally delivered. I had a very touching letter from a pastor who actually heard about this resource on your program and they ordered the workbook “Jehovah Rophek, the Lord our healer.” And he gave it to a woman in his church who was dying of Leukemia and she began to play it. In fact the doctors gave her 10 to 12 days to live. He gave her the CD and the workbook, she listened to it continually; she confessed these scriptures and she was completely healed. The doctors declared that she was completely healed that she didn’t even have Leukemia cells in her body at all. And then her body began to produce blood cells again. And she has lived to declare the works of the Lord; amazing testimony it’s just one of many that we’ve received through people that have received this and put it to work in their life.
Ourg Guest Tommy Welchel
Sid: My guest is Tommy Welchel and Tommy is the last living link to the Azusa Street Revival and he’s going to share what he heard firsthand from the survivors; they were elderly people. He actually lived with them; they took him off the streets. His father was in prison and he was living in the streets and he was addicted to drugs and alcohol. And he got radically saved; he got radically set free from his addictions. They felt God told them to pour into Tommy the anointing’s they had. To pour into Tommy the stories of everything that they had seen firsthand; because there was coming a time in which he was supposed to release this information. And the thing that intrigues me the most is the 100 year prophecy; three of the leaders in different locations prophesied 100 years from the Azusa Street Revival there would be a breakout of miracles greater than Azusa Street. It wouldn’t be just be 1 or 2 places, 1 or 2 special men or woman; it would be anyone that opened themselves up to the move of God’s Spirit. And he was released by Jesus to start talking about these miracles. Tommy, you were told these miracles as a young man and then you were told to keep quiet for something like 40 years about the miracles. How do you remember them so well?
Tommy: I’m in a major tribe; I’ve got an awful lot of Cherokee in me and I’m what they call in the Cherokee nation; “It’s a keeper” We’re a people that you tell us something and then 30 years later we can retell it exactly like you told it to us.
Sid: Well and the thing that I am so intrigued over and yesterday we almost got to that point is the one that God used; one of the most unlikely; if you’re an unlikely guess what get ready. God’s going to use you.
Tommy: That’s right.
Sid: One of the most unlikely was a one eyed black man at a time before integration and the Spirit of God showed up in this warehouse in Azusa Street in California. Almost everyone that walked in would walk out with radical miracles happening to them, but it lasted only 3 ½ years.
Tommy: Yes.
Sid: And we found out yesterday that this fellow was so humble, William Seymour. That he would put a black box over his head and he would pray. Now when he prayed was he praying in supernatural languages; tongues or was he praying in English?
Tommy: He told Brother Sines would ask him (the piano player) “What are you praying?” He said “I pray in the Spirit.”
Sid: So he would pray in tongues but I understand that then he would know what he was praying in tongues.
Tommy: He understood it.
Sid: He had the gift of interpretation.
Tommy: Yes.
Sid: And once he would find out what God wanted he would then; and only then take the box off of his head and whatever God said would happen. But 3 ½ years later he had a broken heart; people were talking about him.
Tommy: They tried to take the mission away from him.
Sid: Why would they want to do that?
Tommy: I don’t know, but they wanted… well one thing was he was not supposed to know anything he’s black.
Sid: So there was discrimination.
Tommy: Discrimination.
Sid: Okay, do you know why after about 3 ½ years he took the box off of his head?
Tommy: They said “He never did say.”
Sid: But you know what I believe; I’m going to tell you a story a true sad story. I was involved; I’ve been involved in several moves of God’s Spirit. I was involved once in a move of God’s Spirit nothing like Azusa Street but a genuine move of God’s Spirit. And one time I saw the Senior Pastor tell someone that was laughing in the Spirit so loud and he felt that he was disrupting his wonderful message. He said “Next time that happens to you I want you to go out into the lobby and take a towel; put it in your mouth so that you’re not disrupting the service with that holy laughter.” That’s what I believe happened with William Seymour; when William Seymour took that box off of his head what happened to the revival?
Tommy: Within 2 weeks they told me; all of them told me within two weeks Shekinah glory had left; a few healings’ and a few people receiving the baptism but no natural stuff. It just died.
Sid: And how old was he at that time?
Tommy: Well, that would have been in 1909; he died in 1922 at 52 years old.
Sid: But when the revival stopped how long did he live?
Tommy: He lived 13 more years; so many people criticized Seymour and telling him “He’s getting too famous; too big to be setting there with that… some even said “A dumb box setting on your head.”
Sid: I have to believe that he listened to the people.
Tommy: He started getting too…
Sid: Rather than listening to God. Now at this revival of Azusa Street; how important was the baptism of the Holy Spirit; praying in supernatural languages and tongues. How important was that?
Tommy: It was extremely important; when the greatest miracles would happen when Seymour would come down and he’d take that box off of his head. And he say “Charles,” (that’s Brother Sines) “Play this tune.” And Brother Sines would start playing it. Then he’d walk around on the platform for a little while and then he’d say now “Start singing in the Spirit.” And that means singing in tongues. When they’d start singing in tongues the Shekinah glory would start swelling and fill the whole building. And then the flames would shoot up into the roof.
Sid: Could everyone see the flames or just a few people?
Tommy: No, about I’d say about 70% could see it.
Sid: Well, that’s almost everyone. The flames would come out of the building and shoot up to Heaven. What else would happen?
Tommy: A ball of fire would appear about 50 feet from them and flames would shoot down and go through them and come into the building.
Sid: So it’s almost like the flames would unite from Heaven and Earth. Now out of curiosity could people that were not in that building that may not even been believers could they have seen this when they were walking on the street?
Tommy: Many called the fire department; they would come down to put out the fire and come running in with their axes and their hose. “The Place is one fire!” And they’re going “No there is no fire.” Finally they would go out; the first time they went out it was Seymour, John G. Lake, F. Balls-Worth; Brother Smith and Brother Sines all ran out looked up and saw the phenomena. They said “No, that’s just the Shekinah glory like Moses and the burning bush.”
Sid: But I understand the glory started spreading from that building all the way to the train station. Tell me about that.
Tommy: The anointing went all the way down. Brother Garcia; the one that told me the story of the arm growing out he lived straight across…
Sid: Wait a minute before you tell me that story you can’t leave that alone. Tell me about an arm growing out; tell me about that. (Laughing)
Tommy: Well, the man that had his arm even his shoulder joint ripped out on a job. It had happened 10 years earlier and they didn’t have the benefits and the things that they have today. So he’d come there and Seymour had come up and was talking to the man and said “Now, can you work?” And he said “No sir I can do minimal jobs and that means I get minimal pay.” He said “Are you married?” And he said “Yes.” He said “You got kids?” And he said “Yes” he said “Can you make a living on it.” He said “Hardly, I can hardly feed them.” And he said “Folks this man needs his old job back.” And he jokingly said “If I pray for you and God gives you a new arm “Will you tithe?” And the man said “Yeah, yeah.”
Sid: (Laughing)
Tommy: And he says “Now I’m just teasing you.” He said “Folks you want to have fun like we did when the man leg grew out and he said “Well, we’re fixing to.” He told them, “Take this artificial arm off of him.” Well, they did and brother Garcia looked down into the hole in the socket and it was just bone and it wasn’t very good it looked bad. And he said “Seymour laid his hand on his shoulder and started praying.” Now the flames was shooting out and flames was coming down and they said “The bones started gowning out and about 4 inches behind it flesh was starting to forming around it.” And he said “I could sit there and watch it just grow out,” he said “I even seen when the finger nails appeared on it!”
Sid: Can you imagine the impact it would have on someone’s faith in everything God has to see an entire part of a shoulder; an entire arm growing out. Okay, what was going on; what were you told about the train station?
Tommy: Okay, Garcia said when he would come in. He was a young man he wasn’t married yet. In the wintertime it was no real bad winter there but it would be dark when he would get home and he’d come in you know and try to get ready and come out on his porch and he’d look over and try to see the mission from Pine Street. It was a block away from the big boulevard that ran right past the train station. Now if you’d seen the flames going up he’d said he would run to Azusa the whole mile. But this day it wasn’t but he was walking by and he looked out and the platform was full of people just laying there. And he said “My God there must have been some kind of disaster.”
Sid: This was at the railroad platform.
Tommy: Yeah, it’s a ½ mile away from Azusa.
Sid: So you’re saying that the glory in Azusa went ½ mile and flattened just normal people not even believers from the presence of God.
Tommy: Most of those were believers.
Sid: Okay.
Tommy: They were getting off but some weren’t.
Sid: Oh. I’ll tell you what we’re out of time.