It's Supernatural

Sid: My guest is Dr. Michael Brown president and founder of Fire School of Ministry Concord, North Carolina right outside of Charlotte. He has a PhD in near eastern languages and literatures from New York University. He has written a number of books proving Jesus is the Messiah. He recently held a debate which we had on our television show It’s Supernatural with a traditional rabbi by the name of Shmuley Boteach. He’s the host of the national TV show “Shalom in the Home” on The Learning Channel. He was named by Talkers Magazine as one the hundred most important radio hosts in America. He is a traditional rabbi and many say he the most famous rabbi in America from a media perspective. The debate was absolutely high adventure. You know Mike if there are two prophecies that I zero in on when I talk, whether it’s a secular Jew, or a religious Jew; it would be one that you were referring to by the prophet Daniel on yesterday’s broadcast that the anointed, or the Messiah, would come and die before the temple is destroyed, the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. So if it wasn’t Jesus who do you say it is? Of course there’s a whole group of Chasidic Jews in New York that many of them think it’s Rabbi Schneerson. Of course he died a number of years ago and never came back to life. Then the other one I zero in on is Isaiah the 53^rd chapter, this was written what 800 years before Jesus came to earth?

Michael: Yeah, roughly closer to 700.

Sid: Talk a bit about Isaiah 53. How important of a prophesy is this?

Michael: Well to me it is the most powerful and central prophesy Sid. If I was talking to a Jewish person that was not schooled in opposing what I believe I would immediately draw their attention to that passage. That would be the one place that I would go. There’s so much resistance against seeing Yeshua there that sometimes I don’t start there, which is why I answered the question yesterday about emphasizing the Messiah came before the second temple was destroyed. Let me tell you why this is such a key passage, the actual passage begins in chapter 52 verse 13 then goes down to 53 verse 12, speaking of the servant of the Lord. First it talks about how highly exalted He’s going to be in an ancient Jewish tradition that applies it to the Messiah says He’s going to be more exalted than Abraham and Moses, and even the ministering angels, but then it says He’s going to suffer terrible disfigurement. It says that His face is going to be barely recognizable as human. So this same on that’s going to be highly exalted, then the next verse says the kings will shut their mouths at him is actually going to suffer terribly. You say who does that apply to? As the chapter goes on it speaks of Him growing up in obscurity. Then coming to a point in life, and this ultimately speaking of His rejection on the cross where He’s despised, rejected of men, and want to hide our face we don’t even want to look at Him, just treat Him like a leper. Think, He’s suffering for His sins, He’s guilty, and it says we didn’t realize He was actually suffering for our sins and carrying our pains and all of us went astray like sheep, yet the Lord laid on Him the guilt of all of us. Then it speaks of how He goes like a lamb to the slaughter; it speaks of even His being buried with the rich and suffering with the wicked. I mean the account is just extraordinary, then being highly exalted by God because He made His own soul as a guilt offering. You read it and you think “This is unbelievable!” I remember many years ago at a real time of seeking God earnestly, having met with rabbis and spent times with religious Jews. I remember I got on my face I said “God I don’t care where the truth leads me; if it’s traditional Judaism I be a traditional Jew; if it’s following Jesus I’ll follow Jesus I don’t care what the consequences are, I don’t care what people think, I’ve only got to do what’s right in Your sight, what pleases You.” I remember not intentionally opening up the Bible to that passage and reading it and being so stunned with the reality, this was laid out in advance it could only be Him. The traditional Jewish view that says “This doesn’t speak of an individual, it speaks of the nation of Israel,” can’t possibly work. The servant of the Lord in Isaiah after about the 48^th chapter is no longer speaking of a nation, but of an individual. It even says about that individual in the 49^th chapter that part of His purpose will be to restore Israel. So even He’s called Israel His purpose is to restore Israel, He’s an individual within the nation. The 50^th chapter speaks of Him suffering as an individual and here this picture… I can’t speak of the nation because if the nation was righteous God would bless and exalt according to the blessings and curses of Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28. It can only be speaking of a righteous individual. When you read it you and you say “Who else is that?” It can’t speak of Israel as a people because Israel’s suffering didn’t bring healing to the nations it brought judgment to the nations. When the nations sinned against Israel, and Israel suffered as they were sinned against by the other nations, God then brought judgment on those nations. Healing and redemption, and wholeness come through what Yeshua did carrying our sickness and pains, dying on the cross for our sins. It even speaks of Him prolonging life, how do you die and you prolong life? That’s what’s called resurrection, and I believe Sid that more Jewish people have come to the Lord, come to believe in Jesus just by reading that passage. In fact let me tell you this, not only Jews coming to the Lord reading that passage more than any other passage. I go India and minister there every year, I met a Hindu doctor who’s a wealthy man, high cast, and went on a spiritual search. I just met him this past August. He went on a spiritual search and was looking for truth and started reading the Bible also. He told me his testimony personally, and when he read Isaiah 53 he said “This must be Jesus” and he got saved. He has become a fearless gospel witness despite all kinds of opposition in India reading that passage.

Sid: Michael you know I tell the story that my Orthodox Jewish father when I read the 53^rd chapter of Isaiah he accused me of reading from a Christian Bible because he said “You’re speaking about Jesus” and I showed him it was the Bible that our Orthodox rabbi had given me and inscribed to me. In other words, the last thing in the world my Orthodox Jewish father would have wanted was to believe that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. He said to me “You are describing Jesus” and I had to show him I was using a traditional Jewish Bible that came right out of the Orthodox synagogue, it was so obvious. Now I’ve heard the arguments that traditional Jewish people have as to why this isn’t speaking about Jesus. It’s almost, not almost it is an insult to anyone’s intelligence if they want to think for themselves.

Michael: You know here’s the thing I encourage people to study and think for themselves. I was in Phoenix in 95 debating a well-known Orthodox Jewish scholar and rabbi. There was an old Jewish couple that wanted to talk to me about the Lord they had a daughter that was a believer they were visiting there in Arizona, and they wanted to talk to me. I said “Listen here’s what I want you to do. I want you to hear me out, but please come to the debate and hear both sides then make up your minds.” Now ultimately we have to humble ourselves before God because there are many intelligent people read what we read and they don’t see it the way we see it. Ultimately we have humble ourselves before God and say “God what do I know I’m just flesh and blood, but my perspective is limited You’re the One who knows everything, You wrote this, You spoke it open my eyes to the truth.” If we’re willing to do that the consequences may be high, I’ve told religious Jews “Do you realize what it’s gonna cost you when you come to understand that Jesus is the Messiah? Do you understand the opposition you’re going to experience, and how you’ll be cut-off from so much of your background?” Listen it’s just like Peter said “Where else can we go? You have the words of eternal life.” No other choice, no other way, no other option, and for anyone doubting God is able to speak today. If you just get on your knees alone and read the passages we’re talking about, and say “God show me the truth. I don’t want to listen to what Sid Roth or Mike Brown…”

Sid: By the way, what happened to that Jewish couple?

Michael: Well Sid as far as I know that very same week they both put their trust in the Lord, and asked Yeshua into their lives for salvation. I repeat it was only after I encouraged them “Don’t just stop right now and let me talk you into anything. Hear both sides.” I was that confident even though I was debating a great scholar, I was confident the truth was on our side.

Sid: By the way, my Jewish father he came to the Lord before he died also. Okay, Mike why do you do debates with Orthodox rabbis?

Michael: I do debates with Orthodox rabbis because I want the truth to be seen, and I want the truth to be known. I still remember as a new Jewish believer being hit with arguments that I had no answers for. I went to Christian books, but they didn’t have sensitivity to the Jewish objections. I went to books that were written by the Jewish believers, and sadly a lot of them were kind of lightweight.  There was not a lot of depth to the material, the sources were not handled well. The first and foremost reason that I began doing these debates was to strengthen my fellow Jewish believers in the faith to encourage them. We not only have a leg to stand on we have two legs to stand on, we the word of God, we have God Himself to stand on, we have absolute secure foundations an immoveable rock. So be encouraged be strengthened even if you had answers when you’ve been hit with objections. Here are the answers, we can be bold we can be public, then the next reason is “Let my Jewish people hear and know we have rational and clear arguments.” We’re not just going around in some emotional frenzy jumping up and down telling you what we believe. We can lay this out scripturally, we can this lay out rationally, if you want to believe we can give you ample reason to believe, and…

Sid: High adventure Mike that is what I call this debate.