It's Supernatural

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Jennifer and Jonatan Toledo, heads of Global Childrens Movement in Foley, Alabama. Jennifer had an encounter with the Lord, it was vision, if you could call it a vision. She was caught up into heaven and she went into a very very small room which Jesus called “The Weeping Room.” In which He could see and hear the cries of everyone on earth all at the same time, every single act of injustice on planet earth. Jennifer said she could see the compassion that Jesus had, how it affected Him. Jennifer how did it affect you?

Jennifer: Well I as well was completely undone, and just began to weep and weep. Pretty soon my heart was just so full of the emotions of God it actually really began to transform my life this encounter.

Sid: Did this happen more than one time?

Jennifer: Yeah it did. Actually there was multiple times where I would see myself in the weeping room. Actually from this place after this encounter the Lord invited me to actually to move to Africa and to begin to live with the poor and to begin to truly experience it. That was how the Lord had me walk this out. My heart really began to be gripped with compassion.

Sid: In other words, after you had this experience you got the major call up to now in your life.

Jennifer: Yes.

Sid: That’s very interesting. Then you talked about another room, this sounds like… I have to be candid with you I want the compassion of God, but that does not sound like a great experience that you had. I like the idea of this strategy room, explain what the strategy room was again.

Jennifer: Okay. When I was in the weeping room I saw another door that led out.  First of all, I want you just too really understand that first when I was in the intimacy chamber I never left that place of intimacy. See the weeping room was just a deeper level of intimacy. From that place, which I believe is true friendship with God you know because in that place of intimacy it feels good for us and all that, but coming into that place of weeping, that place of friendship with God where we truly as friends begin to care about what He cares about. From that place there’s another room, and that is the strategy room. In the strategy room I could see like blueprints, and maps, and just everything that was necessary for revival on the earth for the Kingdom of God coming. This is the great room, this is the room all the Christians are looking for, I mean that’s what we want; we want God’s kingdom, we want to see the manifestation of the His kingdom the earth. I thought “We need the strategy in this room.” I knew there was an abundance of everything needed in that place. I just began to say “Lord I want to go in there.” Actually it was quite comical what the Lord said to me.

Sid: What’s that?

Jennifer: He said “Jennifer you’re too fat you don’t fit through the door.”  [Laughing] At first I was offended and I thought “What are you saying to me Lord!” I just didn’t understand then I realized. You see we really are too fat, there’s too much of our self.

Sid: You just have to be an American Christian to be too fat.

Jennifer: Exactly! [Laughing] So what I did was I said “Okay Lord you know then help me to loose myself, help me to become smaller.” I understood as we spent time in “The Weeping Room” that we get smaller. God wants us to spend time in that place…

Sid: Now what do you mean by we get smaller?

Jennifer: What happens is, when we spend time looking and thinking, and meditating, and letting ourselves feel the emotions of God. When we become more consumed what His needs are, what He feels over what we want in our own life, pretty soon it’s like your own agenda doesn’t matter anymore. Your own money, your own comforts, your rights, your selfishness, it’s like little by little they get stripped away. Because when you see how beautiful He is, when you see… when you begin to feel and experience His emotions our petty selfish things really just aren’t important anymore. They begin to be stripped away, and the Lord desires to strip those things away from us because those are the things that hinder love in our life. Those are the things that hold us back from all that He is. So I began a process in my life and actually in the natural I had to walk this out for a year and a half. Whereas I would pray I would continue to see myself in “The Weeping Room” but I couldn’t go into the strategy room yet. I could see myself getting smaller and smaller. My selfishness, my own ideas of how ministry should be, or how life should be, or how things should happen, and God began to just strip me of those things because I begin to come more and more consumed with His desires. In that place, you know, I just was so… even at first “The Weeping Room” was such a hard place to be, it became a place I loved. It was a place I truly had communion with the Lord, where I felt like a friend of God, or I could share in what break His heart, or I could share in His emotions. You know while I was in there I had another encounter, this is a year and a half later.

Sid: Was this the point where you were small enough to enter the strategy room?

Jennifer: Yes, and what happened… I believe it’s a lifetime of stripping because every day we have to come back to that place of choosing to die to our self. I believe that this is a picture not for myself but for the church, there’s a real indication… what happened was I was in a meeting, I received prayer, I wasn’t even thinking about “The Weeping Room” quite honestly I mean this is a year and a half later. The conference had nothing to do with any of this, but all of a sudden I went into another encounter with the Lord. Right before me I saw what looked like an open vision. I just saw a door swing open, and I was just consumed with the fear of the Lord. In fact, so much so that I was laying on the ground and I could not move my body. Now this has never happened to me, I’m not one who typically has physical manifestations with the presence of the Holy Spirit. I was so consumed with the fear of the Lord I was stuck to the ground and couldn’t move. My body just felt like it was a million pounds, and I saw this huge door swing open and I heard the Lord speak and He said “It’s time. Welcome to the strategy room.” When He said those words it was like thunder going through my bones. I mean I don’t even know how to explain it other than I was just…

Sid: Jeremiah says “There was fire in His bones.”

Jennifer: Yeah, that’s much how His voice sounded. I knew the Lord was inviting me in, but actually it was interesting because a year and a half earlier I had been so eager to get into that place. When the Lord invited me in I just began to weep and I said “God I don’t want to leave this room. I don’t want to leave the weeping room I love being here with you.” You see God had truly changed my heart where the most precious thing to me was now to truly be with Jesus, it wasn’t just for the strategy. I could see just the change in my own response, and the Lord said “I want you to come in.” He walked me in to the strategy, there was so much in this room that I didn’t at this point didn’t have full revelation of everything that was in there. What I did see in front of me was a table and 2 chairs, and the Lord came and He sat me in one chair and sat across from me in the other chair. On either side of the table were these huge angels, these huge spiritual beings and they were holding these little wooden… looked like little vials, little vases. The Lord took my hand and He put a ring He put His ring, His signet ring on my finger. He said “I’m anointing you with authority.” I understood that it’s because of Him, His identity, His ring, His name that we have authority. Then He kind of pointed to these angels and they began to pour oil all over my head and I could feel, in the natural, I could feel it dripping down my body. He said “Now I’m anointing you with power.” He got up and He came behind me, He put His hand on me and I understood that when we truly understand I identity in who we are in Him, that releases authority which releases power. It was like a commissioning into the strategy room. I believe that the strategy room door of heaven truly is open for all of us, but there is a process, there is a process of how we get there. It starts with intimacy, you can’t… there is nowhere else to go if you don’t have intimacy. From that place of intimacy we’re invited deeper into His heart, into true friendship where we’re more consumed with His desires than our own. From that place He entrusts us into this amazing room called the strategy room. Sid I had an encounter one time where as I was in the strategy room I begin to come so grieved because I realized that in generations past there had been people who had gone into the strategy room of heaven before, and at one time they had the compassion, you of the Lord from the weeping room, but as they begin to get that strategy they begin to use it to build their own kingdom. I just could feel the grieving heart of God over that because the very reason He put the weeping room in front of the strategy room I believe as a picture for me to see was because every time He releases divine strategy on us He wants us to go first through that place of weeping. Where we truly carry His desires for His kingdom so it’s not about us, it’s not about selfish gain, it’s not about building our own ministry, or our own name, or whatever. When I felt the grief of the Lord over this I asked Him, I just said “Lord I don’t ever want to be one who uses Your strategy for my own kingdom. Please would you brand my heart with compassion?” As I was saying this I was just kneeling before the Lord and I saw His hand come out and He stuck His hand on my chest and it was quite amazing because in the natural I could feel my entire chest burning with fire. I looked down and in the spirit I could see across my chest was the word compassion. It was branded into my skin, you know it was in my vision, but it was so amazing I just said “God never let me be one who departs from this compassion.” Because that’s the key, compassion is the key that unlocks that strategy door, that’s what gets us in there. When we are truly consumed with His heart that He can trust us with strategy and I believe it’s absolutely urgently the hour that God longs to release His kingdom strategy…

Sid: Jennifer if not now when?

Jennifer: Exactly.

Sid: I want to read to you a quote by a famous theologian his name is Charles Spurgeon. This was from a sermon he gave in 1855 remember that was before 1948, before modern day Israel. All he had was the scriptures and this is what he stated:

“I think we do not attach sufficient importance to the restoration of the Jews. We do not think enough of it, but certainly if there is anything promised it is this the day shall yet come when the Jews, who were the first apostles to the Gentiles; the first missionaries to us who were far off shall be gathered in again. Until that shall be the fullness of the church’s glory can never come. Matchless benefits to the world are bound up with the restoration of Israel their gathering in shall be life from the dead.”

I believe exactly what the scriptures say; I believe exactly what Charles Spurgeon prophesied; I believe when you see Jewish people turning to the Messiah it will literally breath life from the dead to the dead 21^st Century American church and this fresh life that is going to be infused will bring a glory of God… well just like Joel prophesied in the 2^nd chapter of the prophet Joel the 23^rd verse, and it’s talking… it says “Rejoice oh sons of Zion and be glad in the Lord your God. For He has given you the early rain and He has poured down for you the rain, the early and the latter rain as before.” When these 2 rains occur there will be the most gigantic harvest of souls the world has ever seen. It’s never been that the former rain and the latter rain are going to come down at once. He says “This is what will happen the threshing floors will be full of grain, and the vats will overflow with new wine and with oil. When is this going to happen? Keep reading in the 2^nd chapter of Joel the 28^th verse. You’re familiar with that this is what Peter quoted at Pentecost. This is what it says “And it will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit

on all flesh; Your sons and daughters will prophesy,” Who’s sons and daughters? The Jewish sons and daughters. Where? In the land of Israel.  “Your old men will dream dreams.” What old men? The Jewish old men. Where? In the land of Israel. “Your young men will see visions.” What young men will see visions? Israeli young men. Where? In the land of Israel. When is this going to happen? The 31^st verse tells us when this is going to happen “Before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.” Yes it happened at Pentecost, almost 2,000 years ago, but I tell you the greater outpouring on Jewish people is about ready to happen before the great and awesome day of the Lord… it will be such a revival it says “Whoever calls on the name of the Lord is going to be saved.” I can even tell you when it’s going to happen because remember the chapters man put into the Bible, but what God is saying in this 2^nd chapter of Joel picks up in the beginning of the 3^rd chapter of Joel, and tells you when it’s going to happen. This is what he says “I’m going to gather all the nations and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat.  Then I will enter into judgment with them there on behalf of…” one sin by the way, it’s not… there is judgment for abortion, and there is judgment for homosexuality, there is judgment for murder, there is judgment for all sins. There is only one sin in the last days that God will judge the nations on. He says “I will enter into judgment with the nations on behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; And they have divided up My land.” Whose land is it? God’s land. What are they doing? Dividing it up. Who did God give that land to unconditionally forever? The physical seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob over and over, and over again it says throughout the scriptures. So judgment will happen on nations for forcing the Jewish people to divide up that land. At that same time there will be a former rain and a latter rain which represents the Holy Spirit that will result in the great harvest on Jewish people that will result in a harvest on all flesh.

I believe I bumped into it. Guess what festival I bumped into it at last month? The Jewish festival of Shavuot, or Pentecost. We had evangelistic meetings just before Pentecost, and just after Pentecost in Israel last month. This is what I saw with my very eyes, first of all we rented 2 secular auditoriums we did nothing religious. We ran advertisements in Russian newspapers in Israel, we had handbills and flyers printed up in Russian and in Hebrew saying “Lecture on the supernatural. Many people that attend this lecture are physically healed.” I’ll tell you something, when I got there I didn’t know what to expect, but I have to tell you something interesting I was on the “mare pezet,” the balcony, where my sister and brother in law live in Israel. We were having a meal before the lecture began and before my very eyes it was hard for me to even believe it. The most beautiful white dove landed right on that balcony. It was as if God was saying “Here’s My sign, get out of My way son I’m about ready to do something new in the land of Israel.” So we had the first meeting, and at the first meeting we had 200 chairs setup and I would say maybe 80 – 90% of the chairs were filled. I was shocked just from some handbills, and these are just Israelis coming in off of the street. As a matter of fact, the person who helped me put this together Terri, who has been a citizen of Israel for 25 – 30 years with her husband she said “This was the first time a public lecture was held in the Tiberias area, and an altar call was given and we have never seen anything like this before.”

Well let me tell you what happened. I presented the supernatural, people were instantly healed, then I told people how they could come to know God for themselves. Not know about God but know Him for themselves, not anything to do with the religion, having to do with intimacy with God based on the Tenach, the Jewish scriptures. I said that “Religious people have put layer upon layer up layer, they’re making it so difficult to know God, but it’s simple. Look here in the 31^st chapter of the prophet Jeremiah, he says “Behold the day has come in which I will make a new covenant, a new brit,  with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers which they violated. This is the covenant I’m going to make it’s going to be so much better because I will not just forgive your sins as I did at Yom Kippur, but I will remember them no more. I’ll have no remembrance of them.” So then you’re going to be so righteous you can come into My presence and the second wonderful thing of this new covenant that the Jewish prophet said is “You will know me just as Adam knew Eve, Adam had intimacy with Eve, you will know, will have intimacy with God you will hear His voice. You’ll be going into a shopping mall and God will say “Don’t enter there” and suicide bomb and your life is going to be saved. The most critical, the most important thing you can do is to know God for yourself.

It was hard for me to believe my eyes the majority of the people raised their hand to say prayers of salvation. I remember saying to them after they said that prayer “Now if you have never said a prayer of this nature before this is all new to you. I must talk to you personally, I want you to come forward right now, you’ve never done anything like this before.” Some 20 – 30 Israelis that were just off the street came forward and I was able to lay hands on them and bless them, then they were invited into local congregations. Then it gets even better… I’ll tell you what I’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast. You say “How can it get better?” Wait till you hear about Jesus showing up, I mean for real.

Sid:  This is the season; this is the moment that all of us that have known the Lord that have been in the Lord for so long that we’ve been praying for when the glorious congregation has come into being. But it will not come into being until each part has true Biblical intimacy with God.  And that’s why I’m so excited about my guest on the telephone; I’m speaking to him at his home in Dallas, Georgia. His name is Gary Oates; he’s an evangelist he was raised Southern Baptist; he was on staff with Campus Crusade; a pastor.  He’s now travelling the nations and it started in Brazil by just praying “God open my eyes,” and then he was given a test.  “Take your shoes off your on holy ground;” and he looked at the floor and it was in a tent meeting and it was filthy and he thought “I’m not going to do that; who knows what diseases,”  But then he said “God said it and I’m going to do it and when he did it.” His eyes were opened and the first time in his life he saw angels dancing with the dancers; he saw Heavenly choir and then he started moving up high into the sky and then he had a visitation of Jesus.  And Jesus came to him and what happened next Gary?

Gary:  Well, he was holding my hand and my left hand began to burn; it was just a little spot in the beginning but then the whole palm of my hand was on fire.  It was so hot I felt like it was just going to totally burn up; and right then he let go of me and my spirit came back into my body.  My body was still on the floor; I was standing there worshiping just like it was when my spirit left; but because my spirit had been in the presence of God like that when my spirit came back into my body, my body could not contain the presence of the Lord that was resident in my spirit. And I was thrown backward; I hit some chairs they scattered and I hit the concrete floor and nobody caught me; but it was like I landed on a bed of feathers and I lay there on the floor.  It was like I was nailed to the floor I couldn’t move.  I was down for about 45 minutes or an hour.

Sid: Well, what was going on with you at that time?

Gary: I was crying out God I don’t understand all of this but I want more of You.  I want to tell you I felt so little and so insignificant in the presence of the Almighty God that it was overwhelming to me.  And I lay there for the longest time just basking and reliving what had just happened; I tried to get up off the floor; I could barely move I was staggering around; I was drunk in the Spirit.  And some friends had to help me around; all I could do was just cry; they were asking me what happened, it was difficult even to talk about it.  In Ezekiel… I prayed and asked God to show me scriptural evidences of these very events that are happening and have happened to me. And God led me to Ezekiel chapter 8 verse 3 where Ezekiel was telling about the time that He was taken up into the presence of God.  And I got so excited when I read this because Ezekiel’s experience was very similar to mine.  Ezekiel said that “The Spirit of the Lord snatched him up between Earth and Heaven.” In other words he didn’t go all the way; his experience was like mine he didn’t go all the way to the throne room.  And so I thought “Boy I can’t wait until I die and go to Heaven and talk to Ezekiel about his experiences because they were so similar.”  So the next day we went to the meeting I got there early. One of me came in and one of the worship leaders came in and he laid hand on my shoulder and when he did the power of God hit me.  And I fell on the chair between the two of us just like a dead man I couldn’t move; and some of the men lifted me up; pulled the chair out of the way and they put me down on the floor because I looked so uncomfortable.  And right then I was again just crying out “God, I just want more of You, more of You in my life, more of Your presence.”  And as I was laying on the floor, I sensed the overwhelming presence of the God again.  And I opened my eyes to look up on the platform; I could see the worship team up there momentarily but then all of a sudden everything changed I was not there I saw a gold path with some gold steps leading to a gold platform.  And on top of that platform was another gold platform.  Everything was gold all around; there was like it had no beginning or end.  On the top of the platform was a large throne; I didn’t see anyone sitting on the throne but standing next to the throne to the right of it was Jesus.  And He was standing there holding a scepter in His hand and from the waist up the radiance and the glory of God was coming so powerfully from Him that it was difficult for me to endure it. And I honestly thought I was going to die; and in fact the thought cross my mind; you know maybe I have died and gone to Heaven it was…

Sid: Help me out I’ve never had this type of experience; I’ve heard of people that have said sometimes “God stop I can’t take it anymore;” I’m not sure I understand what you were going through.

Gary: Well, it’s like Isaiah in Isaiah Chapter 6 you know when he’s telling the Lord high and lifted up the robe of His train filled the temple.  And then He said “Woe is me; I’m ruined I’m undone; I’m wasted.” Well, I know what he felt like; even in Matthew Chapter 17 on the Mount of Transfiguration with Peter, James and John the Bible says “Jesus was transformed, as He became… the glory of God coming from Him the brilliance, the awesomeness of God’s presence that Peter, James and John fell face down and were terrified. Even in the Book of Revelation Chapter 1 verse 17 you know John said that “When he saw Him;” when he saw the Lord He said “I fell at His feet like a dead man.”  That’s common thing to experience in the presence of God.

Sid: Hmm, what happened next?

Gary: Well, right after that it was very brief it ended and I came back into my body; I was on the floor and it was like I was writhing in agony on the floor.  My eyes were wide open; I was screaming but no sound was coming out of my mouth; I had a look of terror on my face.  And my wife saw me on the floor like that and she was really worried and she asked the men; do something, do something help him.  And so they turned around and they said he’s okay he’s okay.  Well, the reason that I had the look of terror on my face and agony was that I was so acutely aware of my sinfulness in the presence of such a holy God that it brought terror to me.

Sid: Now would you before that moment would you have said “I’m a pretty decent shape with God.”

Gary: Yes, I would I thought I was; I thought I was but in the presence of God it’s like everything is revealed and it was like to the deepest part of my being I was crying out in repentance like I’d never cried out before.  God cleanse me; God purify me and that was my cry.  And I laid on the floor again this time for probably it was almost 2 hours and I could barely get up again.  I had to have people pull me and help me to walk from the presence of God so strong upon me after all of that time as I was reliving those experiences of what God had done. It was the most incredible experience; I was just staggering around for days just weeping.  Anytime anybody would talk about the presence of God I would begin to experience that again in my life.  Randy Clark actually was beginning to preach at that moment and the presence of God was so strong on me and I went into the back and I was sitting there and I couldn’t even stay in the chair; I was vibrating in the chair.  Randy began to tell about a time that his mother had been taken up into the presence of God and again the power of God just came all over me; I couldn’t take it; and I was crying out to God again; I was saying “God I don’t understand this but I just want more of You; more of You; more of You.”  And then God opened my eyes and I saw a big angel standing next to Randy and the angel bent over and whispered in his ear and right then Randy came under such a strong anointing as he was preaching.  And as he began to wind down the angel bent over and whispered in his ear again and Randy started again under this strong anointing.  And it was like every word that came out of his mouth it was like God was speaking; every word carried weight; it just penetrated in my being.  God opened my eyes to hear His voice like I’d never hear it before.  It was so penetrating and again I was just shaking and vibrating in the chair.  My wife asked me “Are you okay, are you okay what happened to you, what happened to you?”  Well, I could barely talk I said “Yes, I’m okay but I’ll tell you later.”  I just needed time to process all of this and so Randy asked me… he sent word back that he wanted me to come up and minister with him at the end but I didn’t think I was going to be able to.

Sid: I would think from what you told me you were totally wasted.

Gary: I was totally wasted.

Sid: So how did you get up there?

Gary:  Well I prayed and asked God if this is you you’re going to have to give me the strength to be able to do it.  Well I felt strength coming into me but I need two men one on each side of me to help me down to the front.  As we walked down to the front the Spirit of God came on me again; I was shaking and vibrating violently as they put me in a chair.  Randy asked me to come up to tell about what had happened but he saw that I was in no condition to do that. So he asked the men to pick me up in the chair and bring me up on the platform.  And so they did; they set me there and he came over and he put the microphone in front of me and he said “Gary what happened?”  And I was so overcome I was shaking, I was bent over, my shoulders were on my knees, my hands were scrapping the floor; and I couldn’t speak. And so he looked down at my wife and he said “Kathy come up and tell us what happened. “ Well, when I told my wife actually what happened after I told her that she was totally blown away by what I had experienced but I told her please don’t tell anybody; I don’t want anybody to know about this until I really have time to process all of this.  And so she said “Okay I won’t tell anybody.”  Well Randy called her to come up in front of everybody to tell what had happened.  And so she took the microphone and then she remembered.  She came over to me and she said “Gary you told me not to tell anybody is it okay?”  Well, I was shaking by head was bobbing up and down and she took that as a yes.

Sid:  Oh no, we’re out of time we’ll pick up her on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: Many of us have been so wounded that we literally maybe not as much as Teresa Liebscher who was able to block all the abuse she had and she blocked in out until the age of 40.  But there are many areas that we have blocked out from our thinking to protect ourselves.  And I have on the telephone Dawna DeSilva and Teresa Liebscher; I’m speaking to them at their church in Redding, California of which they head up a ministry called Sozo. Dawna, would you briefly explain what Sozo is?

Dawna: Yes, Sozo is a very kind and gentle form of deliverance and inner healing.  We go into the wounds and the lies in people’s lives and we ask the Lord to bring truth and once we bring truth to those areas the demonic has to bow and our patterns begin to change in how we respond in our life.

Sid:  And I am so almost overwhelmed how simple you approach this it’s not like any deliverance I’ve seen; it’s as you’ve said you want the person to have respect. And many of the wounds that people have have come from mother, father, sister, brother.  In fact, Teresa you were talking on yesterday’s broadcast about mommy wounds.  Would you explain these types of wounds and what affect this has on us especially with our intimacy with God.

Teresa:  One of the really cool tools that we have we call it the Father Ladder. It is a tool to help you see and understand your connection to the Godhead. Because that’s the intimacy when you have the connection to the Godhead then you have a relationship with all three of them they can really come and interact with you meet your needs and take care of you provide for you. What happens with us is that the family is the place that God created to help us understand that connection to the Godhead because…

Sid: You know Teresa many people have a connection to the Godhead intellectually and not experientially and they don’t understand why. I believe that this is key to understanding why and how to change it.

Teresa: Yes, that’s true we do have an intellect connection but we don’t have a relationship connection.  And the relationship is what we learn in our earthly family.  Because the father meets certain needs and connects with us on an identity level on a security level.  And our mother connects with us with comfort and nurture and teaching and then our siblings are friends like if you don’t have any siblings but we have friends in the neighborhood or church or school.  They help us with communication and companionship.  And when we have those connections then we can connect with the Godhead because Father God comes and He gives us our identity and He gives us our protection. And the Holy Spirit comes and comforts us and nurtures us.  And Jesus is our best friend, he’s closer than a brother; and so we have a grid we have an understanding within our earthly family how we connect to the Godhead. But even perfect families and definitely dysfunctional families we don’t learn that connection, we don’t learn how to have those relationships and so when it comes to having those relationships with the Godhead we don’t even have a clue of what it means for that.

Sid: I’m reminded that so many families in America are single parent families so there’s got to be a hole big area to overcome.

Teresa:  That is a hole place too that is part of that dysfunctional.  But even if your mother was emotionally disconnected or your father was physically there but emotionally disconnected there’s all kinds of different ways in which we can’t connect. And with the Father Ladder this is a great too because all we have do is ask one maybe two questions and we can go right to where the root is; we don’t have to ask a whole bunch of questions; we don’t have to find out detailed explanation of your family life we can just do a little bit one or two questions and we’re right there at the root. Then all you have to do is walk through some forgiveness renouncing lies and then ask the Lord to give us truth.  And with that kind of walking through process it’s amazing how we start to see and understand our wounds and lies.  And what the truth is that overcomes those wounds and lies.

Sid: Teresa give me a real life person that had a problem without naming names, and the question you asked and the answer; help us understand that.

Teresa:  One of the most common things that we hear especially when it comes to Father God is what we do is we sit down and we ask the person “How do they sense, see or feel Father God?” Almost… it’s amazing how many times people say “Well, He’s like the Abraham Lincoln statue in Washington, DC.”  And just by having that information we can even assume that it’s like WOW that’s cold that’s distant.  I mean it’s not very welcoming to come and sit in his lap because there’s no arms to wrap you up in. And when we have had…we walk people through forgiving their early Dad for being cold and distant; for not having warm arms.  For not having a warm laugh; it’s amazing to watch the expression on their face change and go “Oh my gosh, how did you know that was my relationship with my dad number one, because we haven’t asked any questions. Number two that’s how I do think of Father God; I think He’s far away He’s not close to me. He can’t wrap His arms around me and then we renounce the lie that Father God is going to treat them the same way the earthly father is. And then we ask Father God what’s the truth and the truth is a little bit harder to actually explain because the truth always comes very individualistic to that person.  Because the Lord comes and meets our needs; and it’s not just necessarily a blanket statement. But so many times the Lord will come and say “You know what I’m right here with you.”  And they wrap, the Lord wraps His arms around the person and then the person just starts crying because they never thought they could ever have that kind of relationship with Father God.

Sid: You know in your CD’s one of you I think it might have been Dawna was talking about some bikers that just broke down and started bawling and crying and that is not the macho image I have as a biker.  Tell me about one of them.

Dawna:  Well, he was we were at the very end of the seminar and they were there out of having to do it was part of their drug completion and they were Christians and he came up to me and I was praying for someone else.  And he started crying and I’m like okay well I’ll take you and I started praying for him and I said “What’s going on?”  And he said “I got this Jesus thing and I got the Holy Spirit, but I cannot connect to Father God.”  And I said “Okay, let’s do this, are you safe with Jesus?” And he said “Yes.”  And I said “Can you picture Jesus.”  Yes, He’s right here He’s with me.”  He could picture in his mind and I said “Jesus, would You come; would You bring Father God into this picture.”  And He actually jerked his head away, and I said “Father God will not strike you.”  And bam he hit the ground and he was sobbing and just this moan and one of those moans where you don’t know if it’s a good moan or a bad moan. And I got down and I said “Is this good or bad,” He said “Father God is holding me” and he just sobbing because he’s never known a safe father.

Sid: Let’s just jump to another area for a moment.  Many people are… they perform to get their parents to love them and as you explain in your teaching, then we perform to get God to love us.  How do we get out of that trap?

Dawna: Well, we need to realize that Father God… we need the healing that Father God is not needing us to perform for Him. He’s not expecting us to perform for Him.  That what we do is out of our love for Him not for out of our need to be recognized by Him or to get a value from Him.  And it really comes through the tool of the Father Ladder.

Sid: How do you visualize Father God?

Dawna: Personally?

Sid: Yes.

Dawna: I can tell you that it’s been… it changes as we grow.  I can tell you the weirdest one I ever had was I saw Father God in a Roman bath; in this big bath house and said “Come on in here.”  And I’m like “Not on Your life am I coming in there with You” and that was one of those places where the Lord had to show me you know “I will not abuse you, I will not harm you in any way.”  And I just jumped on in and I mean it sounds so weird but the healing that took place in knowing that He’s not going to inappropriately touch me.

Sid: So what you’re saying is depending on the needs that’s how the Holy Spirit pictures Father God to you as your growing the way you need Him to be.  Well a lot of people just all they can do is picture Jesus when it comes to Father God.

Teresa:  I had a young man that I ministered to that when we got the Father wound healed he saw Father as his father who would come and sit and watch football games.  And Jesus was his brother who… and they were sitting around in shorts and tank top eating popcorn and drinking Coke and watching football games.  So it is very true that Godhead comes and meets us where we’re at because it’s important to them to have a relationship with us. 

Sid: You know I’ll just share a little personal thing my father was a very distant type of father an absent type of father.  My mother did everything and I just started developing a quiet time with God and I see myself playing with Jesus and Father God at the beach.

Dawna: That’s a beginning of your healing that’s an awesome picture.  We have people all the time that when we’re done with the Sozo’s they’re either in Father God’s lap or their playing with Him.  And sometimes they’re on His back and their playing horsy and sometimes…

Sid:  Awe Dawna and Teresa were out of time…

Sid: I see a takeover of America in an arena that even few Christians even think about. It’s got to do with the homosexual plan to change America. It’s called “The Agenda” and it’s real nucleus started eons ago from the pit of hell, but there is a statement by Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill in the book “The Overhauling of Straight America.” I want to quote that to you. “You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing, but if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing with a shrug of their shoulders, then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won. To get to shoulder shrug stage gays as a class must cease to appear mysterious, alien, loathsome, and contrary. A large scale media campaign will be required in order to change the image of gays in America.” This literally is their blueprint. I’m quoting from a book the title is “The Agenda” subtitled “The Homosexual Plan to Change America” Louis Sheldon who is chairman of Traditional Values Coalition, and I have him on the telephone. He’s speaking to me in Anaheim, California although he’s normally in Washington D.C. According to your book that is the blueprint of what he homosexual agenda is for America. Would you comment on that Louis?

Louis: Yes I remember when this article came out. It was an article that wasn’t well received at the time from the gay community, but eventually…

Sid: How long ago did that come out?

Louis: In the late 1980’s. I believe it was ‘88 or ‘89 so it’s been 16 or 17 years ago.

Sid: But that’s exactly what they’re doing right now more so than the guy who wrote it thought was possible.

Louis: Right. What they wanted to do was to show that all we have to do is shrug our shoulders “You like vanilla ice cream he likes strawberry ice cream; it’s all ice cream.”

Sid: Then those who take a public stance against it on a consistent basis there’s been such an orchestrated effort to disable them that it appears as though many Christians that took a strong stance have backed off.

Louis:ell that’s true a lot of people cannot deal, I’m talking about Christian people believers, cannot deal with this level of a fight. It is a constant fight I have been in this battle for 33 years. We began when a wonderful Christian man by the name of Walter Martin walked into my office. He wrote the book “Kingdom of the Cults.”

Sid: Which was before they changed it the classic book as far as I was concerned, but go ahead.

Louis: Yes Walter Martin walked in my office and he said “Reverend Lou the homosexuals are on the march.” This was 1972. I said “What do you mean Walter on the march?” He said “Well they’re trying to repeal the sodomy law of California.” I had to say to him “What is a sodomy law?” When he explained it to me and why it was important saying that “If you don’t have a sodomy law then they can come into your schools, they can demand this they can demand that. Almost in a prophetic sense Walter Martin knew that we must not allow that great cultural and inter being consensus be changed that sexual relations were between a man and a woman in marriage, and only that. Well he was absolutely right.

Sid: Is that what triggered you to get into this?

Louis: Yes that is what triggered it. Walter Martin challenged me and we put together the first protest rally at the legislature in Sacramento. We held these Town Hall meetings around…

Sid: Out of curiosity what was… from your perception your purpose before that happened? What were you doing before got into this whole issue?

Louis: I was a Presbyterian minister preaching the gospel every Sunday, you know, doing evangelical and evangelistic work. Very interested in Israel taking trips to Israel every year with a tour group. So basically that was my ministry. Then when I realized that Walter challenged me he really felt that he wanted me to carry this mantel. Shortly after that time his health broke, then eventually he passed away. So that’s basically what I was doing, so as a Presbyterian minister I started later the Traditional Values Coalition and this issue continued to resurface.

Sid: Louis in your book on page 26 you actually print the gay rights platform. I wonder if you would read the planks because this is a good way to understand their agenda.

Louis: Yes the homosexual gay rights plank started in 1972 then they revised it after Bill Clinton was elected president in ’92. They wrote it first in ’72 then in ’92 after Clinton was elected they rewrote it. What I’m gonna give you here is what they used when they marched on Washington about 250, 000 of them marched on Washington to try and push through gays in the military. So they rewrote the platform and the first point and there’s let’s see 3 – 6 there’s 8 points here in this 1993 Gay and Lesbian Task Force Platform. “Implementation of homosexual, bisexual, transgender curriculum at all levels of education.”

Sid: Now how successful have they been?

Louis: They have been very very successful at the university level because now you can take gay and lesbian education classes. You can come in and be sexually explicit in your papers, in your presentation in the classroom; you can discuss all of these as Paul calls them “Unspeakable sexual acts.” As far as high school and middle school, and grade school they are more successful in high school. Not as successful in high school, not as successful as they are in university levels. Then they are less successful in the middle level so that the gay and lesbian and straight educators network is successful at the high school level. Every year they hold a week of diversity seminars. I received a phone call from a young lady just recently back in I think it was the middle of May, saying “I went to art class today Reverend Sheldon and instead of going to my art class they said we were dismissed for an assembly. All of us thought it was going to be a great lark and we would sit there and chew our gum and send each other notes. We went into the assembly and the first thing the first speaker stood up and said ‘I’m homosexual and I’m here to tell you how wonderful this lifestyle is that you should consider it.’”

Sid: Let’s go to their second plank.

Louis: The second point is the lowering of the age of consent for homosexual and heterosexual sex. Right now that age limit is 17 or 18 depending on what state you are in. They want to lower this all the way down in some cases to 12 years and younger.

Sid: Hmm.

Louis: It’s unbelievable, depends on how radical the homosexual group is. Then you have a third point the legalization of homosexual marriages.

Sid: They seem to be making a lot of headway in that arena.

Louis: Absolutely.  Although that’s one arena we’ve been the most successful in and stopping as I mentioned earlier this past week on the broadcast that we have 43 states that have said “No” to homosexual marriage. Anyhow this was written in 1972 this was years ago. The fourth  point is the custody, adoption, and foster care rights for homosexuals, lesbians, and transgender people. Well in California recently the legislature passed a bill, and when Gray Davis was still governor he signed it saying “If you are a foster care parent you CANNOT say anything against homosexuality to those foster care children that you have under your care.” It became illegal like doing something terribly wrong. The fifth one is the redefinition of a family to include the full sexual diversity of all structured kinds of relationships and of the family.

Sid: Out of curiosity the front runner for the president to the United States on the Democratic side, and I think front runner period is Hillary Clinton. What would her position be on something like that?

Louis: Well we can tell you what she has voted for and what she has voted against. She voted against protecting marriage in the constitutional amendment that she had before her. She is very supportive of the whole bisexual, transgender, and gay and lesbian so called domestic partnerships from that standpoint. So Hillary Clinton is not a friend of the family when it comes to the heterosexual ethic versus the diversity sexual ethic.

Sid: Okay, what’s the next plank?

Louis: The next one is access to all programs of the Boy Scouts of America. Well they did lose that finally in the Supreme Court but it wasn’t without damaging a lot of the Boy Scouts image etcetera, etcetera. So they want total access to be Boy Scout leaders in the Boy Scout organization of America. Then you have the next one affirmative action for homosexuals.

Sid: What does that exactly mean?

Louis: That means to consider them a minority like blacks, Hispanics…

Sid: Tell you what we’re out of time.