It's Supernatural

Sid: Bill moves in a ministry if you’ve ever seen the ministry of Katherine Kuhlman or Benny Hinn you’ll see the same types of miracles and the same degrees.  Bill now it’s been over 30 years that you’ve been walking in the gift of miracles; you didn’t pray 20 hours a day; you didn’t fast for 50 days; you didn’t do anything it’s called a gift from God.  Why you?  Why did God pick you for this great gift?

Bill:   (Laughing) I believe God loves to take people who haven’t got anything in the natural to offer and just use them.

Sid: Well, Kathryn Kuhlman was an example of that. (Laughing)

Bill:   You know she really was and that was my struggle way back before all of this happened when God first called me in the ministry when I was 18.  You know I didn’t feel I had anything to offer; I couldn’t sing, I couldn’t play an instrument, I wasn’t eloquent with people I wasn’t very smart.  And I said to God “I don’t have anything to give You I’ll be a liability to You.”  And God just kept calling me and I finally said “I don’t have anything but my life and I’ll give You my life.”  And what I realized in that moment was when you say yes to whatever God’s speaking to you about then comes an anointing and with that anointing comes the equipping to do it.  And I’ve never had to take a long time with people that know me to say “You know this isn’t me it’s God” they know it.

Sid: Tell me one; I like specifics tell me about one miracle that comes to mind and you know when someone has seen one miracle even a great miracle in a year that is unique here in the states. But you see 100’s if not 1000’s in a given evening; give me a picture of one miracle.

Bill: Well, let me tell you about Gary Virk, that’s V-I-R-K, he lives here in Ottawa.  He came to Canada from India; he was Sikh and he was an alcoholic.  Came in the 1970’s to Canada and got a place to live with a lady that lives in the city who had come to our meetings.  She said with you stay in my house if you rent a room in my house you have to come to these meetings.  Well, he wasn’t the least bit interested because he was a Sikh but he came to the meetings.  God touched him and set him free from alcohol, saved  his soul and he ended up marrying this lady a few years later. In the 1990’s, 1992 Gary got so sick he was hospitalized, he ended up weighing 85 pounds; we have pictures of him in fact we’ve documented this it’s on a video called “Miracles Still Happen.”  And there’s Gary 85 pounds; the doctors literally wrote out his death certificate said his body was filled with cancer; there was no hope; he was going to die probably within hours.  So the doctor instructed the nurse said “I won’t need to bother coming back I’ve signed the death certificate just put the time and date in.”  That was 1992 Gary Virk was totally healed; his wife kept coming to the meetings; Gary couldn’t get there and every time there was opportunity she’d come for prayer for Gary. Because she believed as I believe and you believe any two agree as touching anything on earth it shall be done. Gary was totally healed, the doctor later showed him the death certificate and said “But I guess we won’t be needing this.”  He’s the picture of health today years later and he has ministered to people; it’s been written up on our local newspaper here and the local newspaper reporter who isn’t a believer made the comment about Gary “You’ll never convince Gary that miracles don’t happen today because he got one.”  Gary’s got phone calls as far away as mainland China; relatives here in Ottawa clip the newspaper out got his phone number and sent to people in China who are battling with cancer and he’s ministered to them over the phone.  And that’s one of many…

Sid: Now what would you say to the person listening to us right now that’s good for him; that’s good for this Gary Virk, but I’m battling cancer; I’m battling heart disease.  I’m battling Leukemia and Lupus. What about me?

Bill:  I say if it’s God’s will to heal anybody it’s God’s will to heal everybody.

Sid: Oh, that’s so powerful; say that again.

Bill:  If it’s God’s will to heal anybody; it’s God’s will to heal everybody.  James puts it this way in the New Testament “Is there any sick let them call for the elders and the prayer of faith WILL save the sick and the Lord WILL raise them up.”

Sid: Yes, but we all have friends that believe that and died believing that.

Bill:   Yeah.

Sid:  So how can I count on it?

Bill:    You know what, as far as I’m concerned every believer has a mandate to stand in faith and believe for miracles. When you’ve done everything there is to do then the Bible says you just stand.  And we talk about that in the book “Six Keys to Breakthrough in Healing.”  We don’t heal people; we’re not responsible for results but we’re sure responsible for obedience and for just doing that. The only mandate we have as believers is to lay hands on the sick to pray the prayer of faith and to believe for God to heal them. We’ve all see people that haven’t been healed but you know what, I’ve seen people that they’ve heard the gospel and they haven’t come to Christ.  And yet I believe it’s God’s will for every person to be a Christian and come to Christ.  And some people say “Well, I pray for somebody to get healed and they didn’t get healed.  Well, I’ve prayed for some people to get saved and they didn’t get saved, but I don’t change what I believe based on what happened or didn’t happen to somebody.

Sid: You know it’s one thing to have faith for the multitudes to be healed; but in your own home you’re wife Gwen had a thyroid problem; tell me about that.

Bill:  Well, Gwen she had a very serious thyroid condition that the doctor said that they put her on medication and the medication would keep increasing as the thyroid kept decreasing. He said after a period of a few years probably she’d be totally relying on medication.  She suffered with migraine headaches for 12 years very severe one after another that really crippled her.  She had a very serious back condition that put her in into seizures and that she couldn’t even stand tall like that. And her eyes she’s worn glasses since she’s been just a child; she had all of those things.  Prayed for healing, no healing, anointed her with oil, no healing; we prayed for her she as in the meetings, I mean she’d see people healed that she ministered, healed of thyroid conditions, back conditions, eye problems and all of this and yet she wasn’t getting healed.  Until God took her back to her relationship with her father and Gwen never trashed her father, I didn’t feel dishonored her father but she never really honored her father. And her father had been very very tight fisted when it came to finances he grew up in western Canada and homesteading and clearing land and a very rough life going through the depression and all of that.  And so when Gwen’s Mum died when Gwen was 13 her father was the only one in the home the only parent in the home and didn’t give Gwen or her sister or brother really any money.  They had to earn every penny for anything; for school, for clothing, for any extras and Gwen resented that didn’t even know it but resented that.  And when Gwen’s dad died when Gwen was 27 she hardly shed a tear; and that bothered her but she didn’t really grieve.  And a few years ago about 5 years ago or so she was sitting alone down by a lake and God brought her whole father thing to her and said “You’ve never honored your father.”  And the Bible says honor your father and mother that you might have a long full life.  That means a long healthy life; in other words how you deal with your parents affects your physical health; it’s not about your parents it’s about you.  And in that moment Gwen realized as God showed her her dad didn’t mean to be mean; her dad did the best he could, he loved her, he just didn’t know how to show it; he really didn’t know how to care.  In that moment she grieved she shed tears like she would have the day that he died. From that moment on Sid her thyroid condition is constantly improving they keep decreasing the medication.  The doctor says I’ve never seen this before, my wife is 60 years old now…

Sid: What about her glasses?

Bill: And every time she gets her eyes tested they decrease the prescription.  They said “Your eyes getting stronger. They’ve said “Probably by next time she won’t need glasses at all.”

Sid: And you know the thing that you put in your book that is so important especially here in the west is we have greater reliance on doctors and medicine than we do on the power of God.  And people accept their condition because they have high blood pressure.  Well, they can get medicine for the high blood pressure; however there’s side effects from the medicine; but there’s something better than living with your thyroid disease.  Living with your glasses, living with your high blood pressure. What is it in us that causes us to just accept it?

Bill:  Well, sometimes it’s easier you know and we just say “Well, you know what the doctor said you got to be reasonable…

Sid: It runs in my family.

Bill:  It runs in my family and we just accept all of these things and say “What can you do about it.”  Well, the fact is my wife is getting younger and healthier and you know…

Sid:  Are you saying that or is that really true, is she getting younger?

Bill:  She is in every way; I mean there was a time a few years ago because of her medical problems that she couldn’t travel much, she couldn’t minister much.  She’s been with me in the rough trips to Arctic Russia now; she does things that most woman couldn’t do.  And the doctors have said “You’re not deteriorating like you should be.”

Sid: Bill, we’re out of time… I believe that there are areas of blindness that when they read this book they’re going to say “Oh, I see it” and the minute they see it healing is going to breakthrough.  But you told me your heart was not just to get people healed, although that’s what this book will do.  Your heart was to cause people to be activated into the miraculous and go lay hands on the sick; on their neighbor that you or I will never get to and that they’re going to be healed.  I mean I can see a congregation starting from this book.  I can see evangelism; you’ve cried to God you want a breakthrough what more do you need a telegram?

 

 

Sid:  We want everyone in the world to have the same visitation that Barbara Yoder had when she was listening to Handles Messiah. Barbara Yoder tell me what happened.

Barbara: I had received a phone call from a friend of mine and she told me that she believed I was called to lead a church and I just was really baffled by that.  She was so afraid of telling me the wrong thing that the minute she told me she had been in prayer but she really didn’t want to tell me that.   But she felt that she had to because as soon as she finished telling me that she hung up on me and I’m left with this piece of information.  But the minute she told me that the presence of God fell on me but I didn’t know what to do with it and it was Christmas and I was listening to Handles Messiah.  It came to that part where it says “Great is the word in the company of the preachers.” When it got to that phrase all of a sudden I began weeping uncontrollably and speaking in tongues.  I mean I couldn’t stop and for three days just day and night I didn’t even leave my condominium; I just was so overcome speaking in tongues and weeping and God just moving over me in a way that I knew He was empowering me in a new way to fulfill what He had birthed me for.

Sid: You know some of the things that interest me is that you are an apostle now that word has become cheap today.  Many people call themselves apostles because they’re super administrators; that’s not really God definition of an apostle.  Describe to me what an apostle does according to God not according to their business card.

Barbara: You know I’m totally in agreement with you Sid; sometimes I shy away from the word just for that reason.

Sid: I don’t like any titles for that reason.  They say what shall I call you?  I said “How about Sid.” you know.  I feel that way because…

Barbara: I’m with you but I do know that I’m an apostle; I’m primarily an apostle.     And the apostle isn’t a title it’s a function and so it tells me what I’m to do.  Paul said “I Paul an apostle be the will of God.”  And so that word apostle told him what he was to do and the apostle is first in order not in importance but in order of the five ministry gifts.  And it really is a breakthrough ministry and it touches all the other five fold ministries of prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher.  And the apostle can function in any of them but the purpose of an apostle I believe has the anointing of a breaker it is one of the marks of an apostle is that it is a breaker-anointing because they break into new territories, they establish strengthen churches.  They plant new churches, there’s a miraculous anointing.  If you look at the apostles they were attended by signs and wonders.

Sid: So for starters if someone is an apostle then I want to see the miracles going on in your life.  And if there aren’t any then suggest that they find an apostle to be mentored under.  (Laughing)

Barbara:   (Laughing) I agree.

Sid: Okay I want to spend a lot of time this week discussing the breaker-anointing.

Barbara:  Okay you recognize that you need a new breakthrough anointing when you’re up against a wall and you don’t know how to get or a closed door and you don’t know how to get through it.  It’s a process that occurs again and again in your life.  That’s why one of the reasons I wrote “The Breaker-Anointing” because when people understood the process would take them through their entire life.  When God gets ready to take you to a new level of anointing, take you to greater influence excreta a level of greater influence that there’s always something that has to be broken through.  And so you’re at the door to a new realm of increase that interpretation in the Message Bible that you read the other day that it so explains it so well.

Sid: Well let me read it again.

Barbara: Yeah read it.

Sid: Okay, this is from Micah 2:13 the Message Bible which I personalized.  “I God will burst all your confinements and lead you out into the open; I will follow the King He will be out in front leading me.”

Barbara:  Yeah, so the breaker breaks open all the confinement. And when you’re ready I’m ready to move into a new dimension there’s always… the enemy of our soul doesn’t want us to get there.  He wants to keep us plateaued, keep us limited; keep us from becoming all we can be.

Sid: You know I think that every church in the world needs this breakthrough anointing because most churches are not normal; normal as defined by the Bible. They’re just religious they’re doing things by rote.  Could you picture if, what did you call her Mother Beale from that great church in Detroit; could you picture her going from every church in America and yelling that breaker-anointing out and having every religious demon vacate that place?  Can you imagine what a revival would occur?

Barbara: Yeah, and you know I said first of all a lot of churches wouldn’t have let her in.

Sid: (Laughing)

Barbara: Well yeah and you know a lot of churches wouldn’t had let her in.  You know Sid she believes in the demonstration of the breaker-anointing because she was a woman who had the greatest revival; the greatest level of the ladder reign revival that happened in her church. She was a woman Sid and woman can’t move in that dimension but God will move on who He determines to move out of that church to be a church of 3,500.  It was the 5^th largest church in America.  That’s a breakthrough, I mean here was a woman who was atypical that was sold out to God who literally believed in the New Testament and got New Testament results.  She practiced the breaker; she released the breaker all the time over 450 to 500 alcoholics were freed under her ministry.  People were healed regularly, tumors dropped off of people; I mean it was amazing to see her in operation.  And I just believe that is normal Christianity and I believe that we have dumbed down and neutered the church because we’re afraid we’ll lose our congregation, lose finances, whatever.  But I believer every Sunday should be a revival breakthrough Sunday over something. Because that was the New Testament pattern because they were always breaking in the new territory, miracles were happening.   When persecution came you couldn’t get the church down.

Sid: Sometimes I wonder the hottest churches in America are what are called seeker sensitive. I don’t read about seeker sensitive churches in the entire Bible.  I read about God sensitive.  But they say it works and it does because it’s wonderful things for children and families to come together and people say “I go there even though they’re not Spirit Filled because they have such wonderful social programs and for the family.  Barbara how will those churches hold out when persecution comes?

Barbara: I’ve asked the same question because the New Testament Church was so filled with the Spirit of God they had experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit of God power.  The power of the Holy Spirit which was the Spirit of Jesus and to literally get through every difficulty.  You know Jude says building yourself up in yourself up in your most holy faith praying in the Holy Spirit.  And so how are we going to get through the times ahead.  I believe it’s through praying in the Spirit and we’re not going to be able to a seeker sensitive church.  We’re going to have to be a God aware church because we’re going to have to know where the enemy is. I had a friend in Bosnia, when that was going on in Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia. He told me he had to ask God when to cross the street just to miss the bullets, that if he crossed the street at the wrong time he could get killed.  And I thought today we don’t even know the voice of God; and so what is the church going to do when they’re more interested in drama lessons, family programs.

Sid: Well, the whole thing has evolved is it’s sort of like a theater style church where the believers go on Sunday to the best show in town and they sit in the audience and they applaud at the right times, then they go home and they eat and they watch their football game and then they wonder why they don’t hear from God.

Barbara: I know when I became a Christian I was so different you couldn’t sit me down or shut me up.  Because I so desperately wanted everything, I just didn’t want a pretty Jesus I wanted the real Jesus.

Sid: As a matter of fact you talk about the need for a new breed of Christians. We’ll talk about that and the breaker-anointing on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: Somebody has just been physically healed if you have a neck ache; if you move your neck right now you’ll see the pain is totally gone; you’ll also see that the pain in your hip and the pain in your back is gone. If you’re driving pull off to the side of the road because it’s very important for you to do your part God’s just done His part through a word of knowledge you’re part is to just test it; that you can do.  Now I’m speaking to Dr. Doug Weiss on probably one of the most significant topics we’ve discussed in quite a while. Because as it’s affecting every household; it’s affecting every family; and it’s out to destroy your family and it’s sinister it’s sexual sins.  In particular pornography, but every type of sexual sin. Doug as I’m looking through your literature and beginning to understand how the brain operates; I told you I usually on TV you talked about using something for medication; my medication is TV.  But I watch good things; I watch sports, I watch news, but I’m having trouble even watching that these days on television.  You know I’m just even the stuff that’s approved for children; I mean I see the cartoons I don’t watch them but I’ve seen the cartoons I wouldn’t want my children seeing those cartoons they’re demonic!

Doug:  Absolutely, and my kids didn’t what that; we don’t do TV as a practice I don’t really watch TV if I get a couple hours a year it’s usually like you know like someone like the President is getting elected or something like that. I want to know about that but the world is trying to get you to lust and move towards its product and lust is one of the emotional enticements he uses, and that’s why scantly clothed woman sell tires, it doesn’t make no sense no guy looks at a women to by a tire; you know when you go to the tire store there is no beautiful woman there; there’s a bunch of greasy guys right.  So… but those principles that the enemy is trying to bring his 10 commandments into entertainment and God has His 10 Commandments.  I used to tell my kids “Let’s watch something until they break 3 Commandments.”

Sid: Well, that eliminates almost everything except some Christian TV.  (Laughing)

Doug:  And what happens with television which is really scary Sid my first paper in Bible School was on this is when you watch TV within 3 minutes you literally go into an altered state.  So your conscience is really not available to you much; what a little kid watch TV and their bottom jaw drops. There as close to being asleep as they possibly can be.

Sid:  So it’s hypnotic.

Doug: It is hypnotic that is exactly what it is; and the world is actually throwing it’s ideas into our hearts directly.

Sid: Many years ago I heard about subliminal advertising and then I haven’t heard much about it; where they put a message in that your conscious mind doesn’t hear but it actually gets into you.

Doug:  Well, you don’t even need that; I mean just look at some of the beer commercials and the car I mean there is enough lust going on there and again lust, sin and death.  And it’s not just lust for pornography and sexual behaviors. It’s lust for the bigger car, or the bigger house, or the more you get discontented with what God has already given you the inheritance you have.

Sid:  What about TV that has violence; it seems as though that’s big time.

Doug: Well, yeah and that’s well so you know “Thou shall not murder.” Right? So you can be off in less than 3 minutes. Okay, I totally agree now; we live in a culture where the entertainment is going to be there.  We’re the only culture though that has had so much entertainment that we actually have to budget it. Okay, and I really think Christians don’t budget their entertainment.

Sid: What do you mean budget it?

Doug:  Give themselves so many hours of entertainment a week; 3 hours, 5 hours, I mean you don’t need to be entertained 20 hours a week; that’s ridiculous Sid.

Sid: Well, we’re a nation that has stopped reading books because of TV and computers.

Doug: Well, but the church is to be the light; go out and heal people; go out and cast out a demon; go set people free; go share God; do something to advance the Kingdom. If we would just spend one…

Sid: But the church is trained to be an audience, that’s the way the church is today; we have the paid professional that does the work; we go we pay him and we listen to a wonderful presentation and then we go home and watch TV and we put the hours in TV outnumber the hours that we read the Bible or that we’re in church. And no wonder this has happening.

Doug: Well that’s the whole point, that’s what I’m saying, budget your entertainment; give yourself a limit and live within that limit.  Because you don’t need to…your life is not so bad you live in the best country in the world; you don’t need to be entertained 20 hours a week; that’ ridiculous!  

Sid: Alright, explain to me what happens to someone’s brain… first you said “We almost go into a hypnotic position when we’re watching TV for a period of time” and then they can slip their message not subliminally they can slip their message really into… what happens to someone who watches TV to just relax and falls asleep and they don’t even know what they’re taking in.

Doug: You know I don’t know what all the consequences are but I know that you begin to take on a worldly world view; and you become to become desensitized towards the Spirit and things of God. You just become desensitized to well, it’s okay to sleep with other people; it’s okay to do this; it’s okay to sin a little bit; it’s okay to you know do this sometimes.  And most of the things are not okay to do ever, and so you begin to slip into again lust, sin and death. You begin to move down a process where you become unclean, defiled but you don’t know it; that’s the scary part Sid.

Sid: But talk a bit about the images formed inside of you, and then when real life conforms with the image what happens?

Doug:  Absolutely especially those guys who used pornography or the media and they take that and when they have sexual encounter they literally glue that image into their brain.  Now suppose that’s you know we were talking about Joe on another show; his was particularly blonds; so when he sees a blond he’s going to see blonds as an object instead of a child or daughter of God.  Okay if he does that with red heads he’s going to attached sexual reinforcement to that redhead who’s a Godly woman who you shouldn’t be looking at that way anyway.  But what we do to our brain could be what I call set up land minds in the book “Clean” and when you see a landmine in reality it can trigger lust because you’ve trained your brain to lust after that particular type.

Sid: So what does someone do that’s been raised their babysitter was TV and now computers, and they’ve taken all this; they have all these images inside of them.  So they have all these land minds, what can someone do about it?

Doug: Well, “In Clean” I tell them, I mean real practical Sid, if you’re struggling with images and lust in your brain and stuff like that put a rubber band on one of your wrist and every time you lust you check some girl out you rubberneck or make her an object one dimensionalize her, snap it. Quote a scripture afterwards you know “Think of things that are true, just worthy of praise.”  I love what you said earlier about being pure hearted, whatever works but start negatively reinforcing lust shut it down.

Sid:  Now let me see if I understand this alright; are you saying put a rubber band around your wrist and snap it so that you hurt yourself?

Doug: Yeah, I’m saying spank the dog.

Sid: Okay, (Laughing)

Doug: I mean if your dog is kind of peeing on the carpet you spank the dog.

Sid: Okay, I just wanted to make sure I got that. (Laughing)

Doug:  You got it, but you may be how red.  I do a lot of man’s conferences in the country and I hand out like I’ll hand out 500 rubber bands and I’m preaching on Sunday.  So this is like….

Sid: I think that every pastor ought to pass out rubber bands this Sunday.

Doug: Oh, I think so too.

Sid: (Laughing)

Doug: And there are a lot of churches that are trying hard I mean “Clean” is making an impact. There are people that aren’t sitting and watching; and your audience is probably very active in their church and we need active people to really help this move down to…the church needs to be the church in this next decade; it really needs to be the church. 

Sid: You know you’ve got to tell everyone the story about Tom the head greeter that took this message so seriously what he did.

Doug:  I love him, I want Tom’s in every church; so Tom heard the message of “Clean” and he heard the thing about you know confessing to each other and holding each other accountable.  And so he was the greeter so he would literally ask the two questions that I talk about in “Clean” to every man who walked into the door. He said “How you doing with…” and he’s ask those two questions about self-behavior and pornography and if the guy drooped his head and said “Hey I’m kind of struggling.”  He’d say “I want you to go to this group; I want you to get in there.  And what happened is there became this culture where it was okay to talk about it in the men’s side of the family.  And that church has several support groups; the men are honest about what’s going on and that church is growing and multiplying because the men are clean and they’re talking about being clean.  Really it only takes one guy in any church to start being the solution to get this cancer out of the church.  Because in every man’s spirit they want to be clean, clean is in there they cry out to be clean.

Sid: I have to tell you it’s the most wonderful thing in the world to be clean.

Doug: Amen.

Sid: I love it and you’ve been clean how long Doug?

Doug:  Over 25 years.

Sid: So you know what it’s like to not be clean; I do too, I mean I wasn’t saved until I was 30. I know what it’s like to be clean because I’m in my 70’s now and I have been clean all this time.  And I have to tell you clean is better!  (Laughing)

Doug:  Yeah, it’s kind of like that statement I’ve been rich and I’ve been poor; rich is better.

Sid: Yeah. (Laughing)

Doug: (Laughing) But yeah you want to have a clear conscience and the great thing is Sid is like what you’re offering on the program anybody can do this thing; anybody can start it.  Anybody can be the solution; you don’t need to be you know a pastor to do this; a plumber, a real estate guy, an electrician these are the kind of guys that are getting the battle done.  It’s us; it’s not what you call the professional team.

Sid: Okay, let me explain the kit that Doug has put together for us it’s called “The Clean Kit” and it is good to be clean.  It’s 2 DVD’s and a book and a journal and if someone follows these steps.  It’s sexual addictions, but how about gluttony, how about gossip, how about TV, how about whatever your addicted, how about drugs; how about homosexuality; whatever you’re addiction you can be clean.  What’s your experience with people that go through the course and do the work?

Doug:  If they do the work their lives are changed, a lot of guys who are self-employed their incomes more than double which is kind of cool side-affect for pastors.  If they’re spiritual leaders their ministries tend to expand; their marriages improve, their spiritually and emotionally way more mature. And they feel good about themselves and often times they’re destiny begins to release and it’s really exciting to see these guys who were kind of so selfish and self-absorbed become real spiritual men at home, the church and their community.

Sid: You know there are so many people listening to us right now that are sabotaged and some don’t even realize it because and because it’s little compared to what they call the big sins.  But the Bible talks about the little foxes and let’s get that sabotage out before it becomes a fox.  Woops we’re out of time.

SID: Hello. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. Just breathe in the rarified air of Heaven. I prophesy to you, you will, you will hear God’s voice. You will! You will hear God’s voice. You will be normal, normal as defined by the Bible. Because my guest has been called by God to mentor you in hearing God’s voice. You know, as my guest travels around the country and he asks people to raise their hands, how many people hear God’s voice on a regular basis? What percentage would you say do not?

RICHARD: Over 90 percent. It doesn’t matter what denomination where I’m speaking over 90 percent cannot say that they hear God on a regular basis.

SID: So you’re in a Baptist Bible college. You go to schools of theology some seven years. How many classes did you have on hearing God’s voice?

RICHARD: Never had one class on hearing God’s voice. There was one teacher that spoke on how there are only four passages in the Bible that talk about God speaking, and how they’re all misunderstood and misinterpreted, that anybody who says that God spoke to them needs professional help. He happened to be a psychology professor.

SID: Did you know the number one profession for suicides? I’ll leave that alone. But let me ask you this. You read a book on why speaking in tongues is not for today and what did you do about it?

RICHARD: Well I wanted a theology about what was wrong with tongues. And so that’s why I asked for the book. Went to my Baptist pastor and he gave me a book, and I devoured it over a weekend. But the problem was I looked up the passages, and I looked at what they really said, and I saw the weakness of this, you know, author’s arguments, became thoroughly convinced that tongues was for real, against my desire, just trying to be honest with what I read. And I said, Lord, if this is for real, would you give me the gift of tongues, and He did right there in my Baptist college dorm room.

SID: Okay. Now, in a Baptist seminary no less. Okay. 1996, two wonderful ministry opportunities, you’re pastoring, they cross your path. But you don’t know which is God. What do you do?

RICHARD: Well my pastor and dear friends of ours, they told me God had spoken to them, that I was supposed to stay. And I thought, well they got skin in the game. How do I know that they’ve heard God? I didn’t know how to hear God’s voice at that point in my life. And so I prayed a crazy prayer for a Baptist pastor. I said, God, either drop a granite stone out of the sky with message in it that I’m supposed stay here, no joke. That’s what I prayed.

SID: And hope it doesn’t hit you in the head.

RICHARD: I’m glad that’s not how He answered. But the second option, and you know, the crazy things we do sometimes. But I said, Lord, send someone to walk in off the street that doesn’t know me from Adam to tell me God told him I’m supposed to stay. I said, if one of those two things happen I will know that it’s you, I’ll never look back and I will stay. And sure enough, after a four-day fast, I told our church leadership that I was resigning effective one year from now, that I was going to use that year to run the ministry, but raise support. And I got a call from the receptionist. That was on Thursday. My fast ended. On Monday morning, I get a call from the receptionist. She said, “There’s a guy out here wants to speak to a pastor.” So I came out into the lobby and there was a guy with a long beard, long hair, dirty hands, missing half his teeth, old beat up pickup truck outside, and he introduced himself, told me just a little bit about his ministry, and said God had told him to come in here and speak to a pastor. I said, “Okay, how can I help you?” I figure he’s going to ask for money for his ministry or something. And he said, “The one thing I know I’m supposed to say is this, sometimes I feel like God wants us to go far away like to another country if that’s where He can use us, where in reality, God wants us to stay right where we are, and that’s where He’s going to use us to make an impact.” He started crying. Said, “I don’t know why I’m saying this, but God told me to come in here and tell this to a pastor.” Brought him back to my office. And there were two other things I had been praying about that week I had never prayed about before, and he gave me specific answers to both of prayers. He sang a little song, walked around, kissed me on my cheek and walked out the door. I was like, okay, this is the most unusual day of my life so far.

SID: Okay. But now it gets better. Eight months later, this guy, this prophet, his name is Cecil, calls you. What does he say?

RICHARD: He said, “God has given me a word for you.” Well the first time he had given me a business card, and I call him a week later, and the phone was dead. And I thought, what a strange thing. I thought maybe it was angel. Why would he give me a card and disappear? I didn’t hear from him for eight months. And then he said, “I’ve got a word for you.” He came to my office. Before he made it back to my office, there were two of our staff members laying prostrate in their office and he had spoken specific words to them. I knew it was the last day on the job because our church didn’t have stuff like that. So I invited him, you know, back into my office. And he said, “Before I tell you what God has given me to give to you, we need to go your house and pray for your wife. She’s having severe back pain.” I was like, how does he know that?

SID: How did he know that?

RICHARD: There was no way. I hadn’t told anyone. I woke up, about two o’clock that morning, my wife wincing in pain because she was pregnant and the baby was pressing on her sciatica. And so I said, “Let’s go.” We got in the car, drove to my house and he prayed for wife, turned and began to speak a word over me, and the next thing I know I was laying on the carpet in my living room.

SID: He was overcome by the Spirit. What did God do when you were overcome by the Spirit?

RICHARD: Began to see a vision right away. One short side note is exactly a week before I had a teenager in my youth group, wanted to share a vision that he had when he was slain in the Spirit, and I asked him, I said, “Can you show me slaying in the Spirit in the Bible.” He didn’t come forth with any passages. And I was thinking, okay if God was going to speak through a vision to someone, I wouldn’t put that past God. But wouldn’t he give it to me, the leader of the ministry, not one of my teenagers. He’s just a drummer in my band. Forgive me Lord for my arrogance. But here I am exactly one week later, laying on the floor having a vision. The first thing I saw was an angel at my feet. And this angel is laying a sheet over on top of me. And as the angel was laying the sheet over me, Cecil said, “There is an angel and he’s putting a mantle on [you].” How does he see what I’m seeing in this vision? And then I saw a sword falling from the sky, end over end, and as it fell, all of a sudden it hit something that I couldn’t see before. But it hit a veil and began to split the veil, and tore the veil as it came all the way to the ground. And then this little, what I would now call a cherub, I didn’t know what it was at the time, it was a small angelic being, poked his head through and said, “Come.” And I went through the veil. And next, it’s interesting because it was a lot like this was a round platform in the middle, and there was a Roman soldier’s helmet spinning over the platform. And I’m just watching it all. It was three-dimensional. It was as real as this set. And then I saw a star begin to descend from above. And the closer it got to me, the more I felt this energy like pulsing through my being to the point when it got fairly close to me, I said, that’s enough. I felt like I was going to explode. My wife had bent down to see that I was still breathing as I laid there. And I sat up, and I thought, okay, my theological God box has just been exploded.

SID: And wait until you find out. He received a mantle and we’re going to have him demonstrate that in a few minutes. We’ll be right back.