It's Supernatural

Sid: My guest is Theresa Griffith Hurlbert and now I have her husband Jeff on the line and I’m speaking to them by way of telephone at their home in Northern California.  And Theresa on yesterday’s broadcast we found out that you went through such devastating marriage; just briefly recap what you went through.

Theresa:  Well, it was a quarter of century of verbal, emotional, physiological and other forms of abuse.  And…

Sid: I mean to the point where it was life threatening, her body was closing down, God did a wonderful miracle He healed you; You decided your husband is going to be the Lord. Then it just got so tough you prayed to God for a helpmate and you listed 40 criteria.  Tell me a few of them

Theresa:  He had to be 39; he had to be a gourmet health food cook, one that could act because we’re going to be doing this movie, a sense of humor.

Sid: Now for those that don’t know they’re actually doing a movie on her life, but go ahead.

Theresa: I actually asked the Lord for a hunk…someone that’s glorious, someone with the character of Jesus who was prophetic musician, could speak poetic love talk all day long.  And so and it goes on and on 40 things. The Lord sent me someone with the character of Jesus.  

Sid: Okay, wait a second now, you were invited to go church in Bakersfield, California.  Any thought that you might find your husband there?

Theresa:  Well, I’ll tell you when I moved to California I kept seeing a vision of myself in my suffering like Beetle Bailey beaten by Sarge if people know that comic to the point that he’s on the floor and he doesn’t look like a human being anymore.  That’s what I kept seeing because of my suffering; but on the way down to Bakersfield, California I saw a new vision of dancing like Snoopy with my snout in the air.  My spirit was leaping and I had no idea why.

Sid: Jeff you were youth pastor at this church at Bakersfield, California did you have any thought that something was going to be happening in your life?

Jeff:  Sid you know I did because for a month before Theresa was scheduled to be at the conference we were praying and interceding for speakers that were coming and I kept looking at Theresa thinking to myself wow, she’s totally gifted and she’s a musician and it seems like all these things that I had really asked the Lord for plus she’s just beautiful.  And I thought “Okay Jesus if this is you know maybe something that could work out be sure and speak a little louder this next week when Theresa comes.”  When I saw her she took my breath away you know the whole package the anointing and the way she just radiated the Lord. Of course at that time my hope went a little higher I thought I hope that I get to play drums for her.  And sure enough I did and when I saw her minister I thought to myself, “This is what I want in my life and…”

Sid: How about when she ministered to you how accurate were her word’s of knowledge?

Jeff:  She was right on and it floored me; it was a lot of my personal time with the Lord things that I would speak with Him that nobody knew about that I had been doing a lot of research and study on John the Baptist and John the beloved.  I really had admired those two and many times you know Jesus teach me in the ways of everlasting just like them.  I have such a love relationship with the Lord I felt like I was sharing in a lot of what John the beloved was all about. Sure enough right out of her mouth maybe within the first could of seconds she said “You know what John’s inside of you; John the Baptist and John the beloved and immediately you know my ears are open.

Sid: Now wait a second now, you have 3 dates with her and you decide to pop the question, there is something interesting about that.  Theresa you had a vision of him doing this just before it happened, tell me about that.

Theresa:  I did and you know I mentioned this yesterday or not but the Lord placed me in California on a street called Bridal Pathway to encourage way to encourage me he was coming.  And then when we had a date we were doing some sightseeing and we went to a waterfall within walking distance from my house called “Bridal Veil Falls.”  And as we’re standing there it’s Friday, which is Lake Tahoe Day traffic which is right beside the waterfall and I saw a vision of Jeff proposing and I started laughing.  And he’s looking confused but he knelt down and asked me to marry him and the traffic is just beeping just like a movie and hooping and hollering and laughing and saying “Yes, yes, yes.” (Laughing)  

Sid: So bottom line how long have you been married?

Theresa:  One year Sunday and hotter than ever he takes my breath away and loves me the way Jesus loves me and He’s bringing healing to my path every day.

Sid: Speaking of healing there is a CD called “Lover of My Soul” that we’re making available it comes from Psalms of Solomon tell me about this CD.

Theresa:  Well, it’s a love language between the Bride and the Bridegroom and I choose a friend of mine; he has a soothing voice to be the voice of the Bridegroom, so we’re going back and forth with this love language and people they’re experiencing the love of God like never before.

Sid: Let’s have a selection from that right now.

Theresa: “Lover of my Soul” excerpt. 

Sid: Theresa what is God telling us through this CD?

Theresa:  Well, I believe that this is a time of courtship. This is the actual season of the courtship of the Bridegroom and the bride. He is coming to woo His bride. He has called Jeff and I actually demonstrate that so that people can get a visual of that, and it’s going to make a beautiful movie.

Sid: Jeff give me an example of one of her concerts where someone was physically healed.

Jeff:  I’m thinking of a younger gentleman named Billy in Michigan. Where the Lord actually showed me like… in the time that it took me to blink I had a full vision of what I was supposed to do with this young man.  I was supposed to lift him up out of the chair and put him on stage and turn him facing the people.  The Lord said to reach around put your hands on his kidneys and call forth new kidney’s.  I did exactly that; I gave him a word of knowledge and said “You’ve been delivered of drugs, you are getting a brand new bill of health your blood is filtered.” Sure enough he told me after the concert that he knew he’d been healed.  He had just gotten out of the hospital for kidney failure and was in a coma for three days because of drug overdose.  Just called us maybe a month ago and said “Hey look, I’ve been clean for 9 months and I’ve given my life to the Lord; I’m almost in fulltime ministry.”  He’s donated a building to Teen Challenge.  Praise the Lord…

Sid:  How’s his kidney?

Jeff: Healed.

Sid: What kind of reports are you getting from people that are listening to the CDs or coming to the concerts?

Jeff: I think that what is it about this music?  And we’re getting reports of every situation the pain and all the other stuff with that being relieved. Lots of people getting sleep when they’ve never been able to sleep through the night.  

Sid: I understand children with learning disorders and ADD and things like that are getting healed.

Jeff: Yeah, that’s correct there’s a list that’s growing weekly of schools, even military schools where kids have been kicked out you know from school after school they’re now asking for it by name in the class room setting.

Sid: You know what I was thinking about this morning Oral Roberts and remember he was the one that coined “God is a good God.”  Of course he plagiarized it came from the Bible. But I feel like I have to say that to you; “God is a good God!”  The more I walk with Him, which is 40 years now, the more I realize what a good God He is.

Now what I’m going to teach on this week is probably one of the most important messages short of your salvation you will ever hear.  Because if you don’t understand what I’m going to teach you will not understand the end times and you will not understand what God is up to right now.  So I’m going to start with a question, “Why has the Jew been persecuted in every generation?”  Some might say “Well because from the seed of a Jew came Jesus.”  And that’s a good answer, but the truth is He already came, He already was born, lived, died, rose from the dead; so why is the Jew still persecuted? You must understand that, there is a reason; sometimes I think the devil understands the prophetic word of God better than most Christians, but it cannot be that way. Now let’s go back to the beginning of the hatred between the devil and the Jew.  Starts in Genesis the 3^rd chapter the 15^th verse.  And “I will put enmity,” (this is God speaking and enmity means hatred) “I will put hatred between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head.” (And of course he speaking to the devil and you recognize that if someone’s head is smashed they can’t operate their body). So “He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heal.”  In other words the seed of the woman is going to crush the head of the devil.  So if you were the devil (laughing) you would say “I got to get rid of this woman and certainly her seed the Jewish people otherwise my head’s going to get crushed.”

We’re also told about this miraculous child that would crush the head of the serpent in Isaiah chapter 7 verse 14. “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign” and if you look up the word in the Hebrew the word sign means a “miraculous sign,” something that transcends a normal event.  “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a supernatural sign; behold the virgin shall conceive and bare a son.”  Now if you look up the word virgin in the Hebrew it’s “Alma” which means “a young woman.”  And in modern Hebrew could mean also a virgin.”  Because it means a young woman many think it’s not a virgin, but they don’t understand the Torah.  You see it’s the word Alma means a young woman of marriageable age.  And back then if a young woman of marriageable age was not a virgin she was stoned to death, so of course it had to be a virgin it wouldn’t have been a supernatural sign if it was just a young woman.  So let’s look at this prophecy again. “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a miraculous sign behold the virgin shall conceive and bare a son and shall call his name Emmanuel.”  In the Hebrew means “God is with us.” I mean how could be you anymore specific God is with us. This amazing God is with us is described in Isaiah 52 verse 13 to 53 verse 12.  And I’m going to read to you from the One New Man Bible, and remember this prophecy was written 800 plus years before Jesus even came to earth. And in fact no one has tampered with this.  Now how can I say “No one has tampered with the word of God?”  Easy we found the Dead Sea Scrolls and I personally have seen the prophet Isaiah from the Dead Sea Scrolls in the Museum of the Book in Israel and no one has tampered with the word of God.

So some 800 plus years before Jesus was conceived in a woman that was a virgin.  This son was called Emmanuel, God is with us.  This is what Isaiah prophesied about this amazing seed. “Behold My servant will succeed.”  I love that don’t you?  I love the One New Man Bible. My servant will succeed He will be exalted and extolled and will be very high.”  So we know this is going to be a very exalted servant of God that is coming that cannot fail. “He will succeed; as many as were astonished at you His face was disfigured more than any mans, and His form more than the sons of men.

And when the Messiah was beaten the crown of thorns, crucified.  He was disfigured more than any man but I believe Isaiah seeing in the Spirit because his disfiguration was not just his physical body, but he was disfigured because He took every disease, every pain, every sin of every human in history upon Himself.  He could not have been more disfigured.

“Who would have believed our report?”  First of all who’s speaking? Isaiah the prophet, so he’s saying “Whose going to believe the prophet’s report and to whom has the arm of the Lord revealed?” (Now the arm of the Lord…you just skip down to Isaiah 59:16 and it tells us who the arm of the Lord is.)  God is speaking and God says “He saw that there was no man therefore His own arm brought salvation.”  So to whom is the arm of the Lord going to be revealed?  God’s own arm brought salvation.  And I looked up the Hebrew word and it’s a form of Yeshua, Jesus, God’s own arm brought Jesus salvation.

Verse 2 “For he grew up before him as a tender plant and as a root out of dry ground.”  This sounds like the virgin birth again.  Have you ever seen a tender plant and a root grow on completely dry ground; it would take a miracle. “He had no form or spender and when we (That’s talking about the Jewish people see Him) there’s no beauty that we should even desire Him.  He was despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and having known about sickness, disease and as one for whom men hide their face. In fact, when the ancient Rabbis read this they said “Oh, it sounds like He has leprous upon Him and they used to call this one the leprous Messiah because they saw all sorts of disease and sickness on him.  It goes on to say “He was despised and we (that’s the Jewish people) esteemed him not.”

Verse 4 “Surely He has born our sicknesses and our pains.  That word born in the Hebrew is Nasaw and that’s the word used for the scapegoat.  When the high priest would put his hands on the scapegoat and confess the sins of all of the Jewish people and they would “Nasaw” they would bare him away to a place where he’d never be seen again.  So surely he shall nasaw our sicknesses and our pains and never be seen again He carried them, “And we esteemed him (see we thought he was stricken, smitten of God and afflicted but he was wounded because of our transgressions, bruised because of our iniquities, the chastisement or punishment of our peace” (the word peace is completeness) so we could not have the completeness it’s the word shalom. “The punishment for our completeness it was upon Him (He took the punishment so we could be complete) and we have been healed by his wounds. man” I love that, we’ve been healed by his wounds, “all we like sheep have gone astray, we’ve turned each one to his own way and the Lord has caused the iniquity,” (that’s the heart wounds as well as the physical wounds) “of us all to fall upon Him. He was oppressed and He was afflicted yet He did not open His mouth; like a lamb which is brought to the slaughter and like a sheep is mute before her shearers.”  When He was before Pontius Pilate He didn’t even defend Himself.  “For He was cutoff out of the land of the living, He was stricken because of the transgressions of my people.”  The transgressions of the Jewish people.
One made His grave among and wicked there was a thief on either side of Him when He was crucified in his tomb among the rich..  He was buried in Joseph of Arimathea’s tomb; a wealthy man although he had done no violence, nor was there any deceit in his mouth.  By his knowledge my servant will justify the righteous before many and he will bare their antiquities. In other words by knowledge of him we will be made righteous and we will be justified.  I’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast you must hear this week’s teaching.

Sid: My guest is Tommy O’Dell I’m speaking to him at his office in Tulsa, Oklahoma. His grandfather, T.L. Osborn; his mother T.L. Osborn’s daughter who has a wonderful evangelistic ministry; I would say his grandfather has probably led more people to the Lord, and seen more miracles happen under his ministry than anyone on planet earth. Tommy how many years has your grandfather been in ministry?

Tommy: I believe more than 60 years.

Sid: And the fruit that he has had! Well on yesterday’s, I’m gonna get people upset if I don’t get right back to what happened to Tommy. Tommy even though he had this wonderful background, even though he saw miracles he never had an experience with Jesus himself. He had the Jesus of religion and that didn’t spin. He got into drugs, he got into eastern religions, Hinduism; he got so bad off in drugs he overdosed; he couldn’t put more than a couple of words together; his brain was fried, I guess that’s the vernacular; he couldn’t even think. I mean he overdosed and his friends were afraid so… where did they put your body?

Tommy: They just dumped me out of the car.

Sid: Oh good friends. (Laughing)

Tommy: They really were close friends, but they…

Sid: You should have seen what some of your enemies would of done, but go ahead. (Laughing)

Tommy: With friends like that who needs enemies. (Laughing) I felt my spirit actually leaving my body and I knew I wasn’t right with God. I didn’t call out on any of the Hindu deities, or I didn’t call out on the name of Buddha. That would have been nonsense when you study the Hinduism, or Buddhism there’s really no possibilities for miracles. The Hindus haven’t done miracles for thousands of years, and Buddha never did. So I called out on the name of Jesus, the seeds of the gospel were planted in my heart. The Bible says “Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Something deep within me, you know people love to brag about the potency of the satanic seed, but there is nothing like the seed of the living God. You just can’t kill it it’s in you. When you plant that seed in a heart that’s willing it’s amazing what it can produce. Through all of searching and eastern religion and drugs, I did astral projection, and many different things to try and find spiritual peace. Everything failed. They say that all paths lead to the same destination and they do all paths lead to destruction, if it’s not Jesus. Jesus said “I am THE way, I am THE truth, I am THE life.” So I called out on the name of Jesus and the power of God literally went through me like fire. As this heat passed through me it passed through my mind and into body, and into deepest part of my being. Everywhere that fire burned it healed; I felt the healing life of God pour through me. I stood up and raised my hands and began to weep, and thank God. This presence of the living God bathed me it was the most wonderful thing. During that time I actually saw Jesus in my heart being beaten, being nailed to the cross, the flesh turned from His back with a whip. I recognized, what I later found in Isaiah 53 “That He was wounded for my transgressions, and bruised for my iniquities, the chastisement of my peace was on Him, and with His stripes I was healed.” He bore my pain; He bore my addiction; He bore my sin and my rebellion and my wickedness.

Sid: That’s what the Bible says, but you’re telling me that you experienced that.

Tommy: It happened to me. Yeah that’s the amazing thing, Jesus is more than a religion. Because religion you can never prove it, you can never demonstrate it. The life of Jesus Christ is irrefutable, it is undeniable when it is demonstrated by a miracle proof, and I am a miracle. Without a miracle I should either be dead, really I should be dead, or burnt out vegetable barely able to speak. To think about what God did for me as His power just poured through me and through my heart. I knew God was healing me, but I didn’t know all what He was doing to me; I didn’t know He was restoring my brain, all I knew was God reached down and grabbed that addiction. It was like an oak tree with deep roots and He tore it out at the roots.

Sid: Now who was the first person you saw after this experience?

Tommy: The first person I saw, I went back to my best friend Burl Beard, and walked to his home. When I walked to him he was astonished because the last time he saw me my mind was absolutely burnt out, I didn’t even know my own name. So he just began to weep and weep, he knew he was in the presence of a miracle. The next one was a friend of mine named Jason Brymer who’s Jewish, and I walked in he was so shocked. He said “Tommy I don’t believe in Jesus, I don’t believe in your Christianity, but I admit this is a miracle, this is a miracle. There’s no way I can deny it.” After that I went to my mother’s house and I rang the doorbell, the little intercom, and she heard me laughing. I was laughing and she thought I was there with some of my druggy friends, and she was scared to let me in. She…

Sid: Hmm. That reminds me of Peter knocking at the door remember? (Laughing) They’re praying for him, they’re praying for all they’re worth for Peter to get out of prison he’s there and they don’t even open the door. (Laughing)

Tommy: (Laughing) It was just like that. I kept ringing and ringing and she said “Tommy are you alone?” I got to thinking about it and it made me laugh harder, I said “No I’m not alone, I don’t think I’m ever going to have to be alone again.” (Laughing) She said “Are you alone?” I said “No Jesus has come to me I’m a miracle.” When she opened up the door she could tell I was changed. My mind was instantly healed, the addiction was gone. I didn’t go through any withdrawal, I was healed it was a miracle, and a fire came on me, a fire came upon me to tell the world about what Jesus had done for me. Now I knew Jesus is Lord, I knew that He is risen from the dead; I knew if He would come to me, if He would save me, if He would heal me He would do that for anybody.

Sid: Now you tell ahold of an old book that was almost out of print I think from your grandfather called “Miracles Proof of God’s Love.” Did you actually read that book out loud?

Tommy: Yes it was real…

Sid: Tell me about that.

Tommy: It was right after I was saved, and I found that book, it was out of print. It was a small book under a 100 pages. I began to read, and for some reason I began to read it out loud. In the middle of the book, as I was reading I just kept getting more and more excited because it revealed how God is God of the supernatural. I’ll never forget one of the quotes in the book my grandfather said he said “The love of the miraculous is not a mark of ignorance, that rather it reveals humanity’s intense desire to reach the unseen God.” As I continued to read the power of God began to course through me in a physical manifestation, like an electric current. It went from the top of my head through my extremities, up and down my arms and legs, it knocked me off of my feet, I fell on my back. My hands were glued to the book; I kept reading until I couldn’t hardly talk anymore, but worship the Lord in a heavenly language, and it was amazing. So what dawned on me as all this was happening to me was, you know this is a special book, this is an important…

Sid: Let me ask you, then at age 19 you had your first mass campaign. Tell me what happened.

Tommy: Oh that’s a wonderful story. See I was saved right before my 17^th birthday, and before I was saved I had lived in Africa. Remember, but I lived in Africa as an unbeliever.

Sid: Right.

Tommy: So I wanted to go back so bad, oh I was aching to go back to Africa, but I didn’t have enough money.  Nobody believed a young teenager like me had any business trying to go to Africa and preach and things. I got the opportunity to go to Holland. I didn’t have any desire to go to Holland, I didn’t know what a mission field Holland was. I looked on the globe and I saw that it was closer to Africa than Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Sid: (Laughing)

Tommy: (Laughing) So while I was in Holland I met my wife Elizabeth and she’s been my best friend, and we had the most remarkable and wonderful adventures together around the world. We’ve got 5 kids so I’m glad I went to Holland. After that we went all over Central America, and saw God do incredible miracles there, and finally we made it back to Africa right about our 19^th birthdays. We had a new little baby that was born in Nigeria. There was a military overthrow in Nigeria and we were there in the middle of it. We had a burden to go to Ghana, which was a country that had a real nasty military coup. To make matters worse after all the bloodshed from that coup d’état there was a famine that hit Ghana.

Sid: Were there many miracles at that particular event?

Tommy: Oh my goodness. When we went to Ghana we went to country that had been in famine, that had been war torn. We had a campaign, we were astonished there were more than 40 deaf mutes that were healed.

Sid: Did you say 4-0, 40?

Tommy: 40.

Sid: Dead mutes that were healed. You’re just a 19 year old punk, you’re coming off of drugs! I tell you what he read this book and the anointing of God came on him so strong.

Sid: I’m talking to Tony and Felicity Dale and they have an organization called “House to House Ministry.”  And they make it so simple as how to start a congregation, their principals work with a church, they work with a Messianic Synagogue, they work with a house-group.  But you stated on yesterday’s broadcast Tony you were talking about… I asked you about a congregation that was started in low income housing project.  And since I read this previously it’s almost like a pattern that God will use for almost anyone to start a congregation. Felicity you went on what you called a prayer walk, explain what that is.

Felicity: Originally the Lord told me that I was specifically to walk a particular street here in Austin.  And that sort of prayer walk was in obedience to that. Subsequently to that when the Lord had told us that “Yes, we was to start a church in this particular low income housing project.”  We did go around the area quite a bit praying very specifically for that, we asked the Lord to identify any particular problems that might be going on there so that we could pray against those problems, we were asking Him to bless the area, we were praying for the welfare of the people that lived there, you know for the services that might be involved there like the police, like the teachers, that kind of thing.  We were praying over all very specifically for this area.

Sid:  Okay, your praying for it, it starts dumping on you, pouring down rain, you go for shelter and you bump into a couple to women, and since it’s a very low income area they’re saying “What are you…,” in a nice way, “What are you doing here?”

Tony: Well, we were just hones with them we said “We’re here praying for the area asking God to bless the area and you know outcome their story.  It’s amazing how open people are to spiritual things when we learn to be open. And so they shard that they were Catholic and they were born Catholic and they were going to die Catholic but no they were never going inside a Catholic church again because of some perceived you know miss doing that a nun had you know an incident with one of their kids some years before. And so you know it’s just typical disaffected people with a veneer of religion but no real experience of God but an openness to Jesus.  In fact a belief because of something that had happened when one of their kids was a baby.  Even in God’s miracle working power. So we asked them, “Could we come to their home, could we take the opportunity perhaps pray for them and some of the needs in their lives.  And they were very open to that, and it was in their opening of their home that we recognized that this was exactly what it talks about in Luke chapter 10. When it says “Your looking for a person of peace, and you’ll know them because they invite them into their home, they offer their hospitality, the share their food and that’s what we found.  That we were here eating with them, enjoying their family and beginning to have opportunity to share the Kingdom of God with them.

Sid: So what happened next?

Tony: Well, God began answering prayer and maybe I should get Felicity to talk about this.   

Sid: Felicity, were these general answers to prayers or really amazing answers?

Felicity:  Well, they were very specific answers perhaps one of the first ones was that Rosa was the person of person of peace had been trying to get on to some kind of welfare or disability money from the government for about 2 years.  And whatever one might think of that within a week or two of our starting praying her checks started arriving and she saw that as a very definite answer to prayer.  And it was on the basis of that that she then willingly opened up the rest of her family her circle of influence to us coming and talking about what had happened.  In fact let me tell you the story of James who is her son.  James had told us that he could never ever become a Christian because he had a set of friends, a gang of friends, that had been there for him ever since he was a small kid that had always been there for each other and he knew that if he had to choose between his gang of friends and Jesus he would have to choose his gang of friends, and therefore he could not become a Christian. Which to me shows a really clear understanding of what becoming a Christian means.

Sid: He’s counting the cost.

Felicity:  Exactly, and he says “You know I cannot pay that cost.  So we had a friend come over from England shortly after he had told us this. This friend moves in the power of the prophetic and he said to James. “James, you know the Lord loves he way that you are such a good friend.”  The following week James when to donate blood and within a couple of days he had phone call from the hospital saying “You need to come in for an urgent appointment, you know we found some abnormalities in your blood you need an immediate medical appointment.  And so he was fearing the worst and he prayed and he said to God “God if you will spare my life, from this day on my honor and my respect will belong to you.”  He went and he followed up with a medical appointment, it turned out to be something minor but he told the Lord “I meant what I said, You’ve spared my life, from this day on my honor and my respect belong to you.”  And he then called up you know his friends from the past, this gang of friends that he had and he said to them “You need to understand that today I’ve given my honor and my respect to Jesus and if I ever have to choose between you and Jesus then I choose Jesus.”  And that was his conversion experience.

Sid: Now have you’ve seen many and in this particular group, let’s focus on this one, have you seen many healings or miracles like that?

Tony: We got a phone call one day while we were meeting that one of the fairly close family members down in San Antonio was in very very serious condition following a kidney transplant.  And we began to pray and just ask God to do a miracle, I mean basically the story had come from the hospital to us and from my medical background it was very clear that this young lady was dying.  Well, all I can say is that the response to prayer was absolutely dramatic, the girl turned around just over night the hospital re-contacted the family and said “We cannot explain what’s happened but the rejection has been reversed, everything is going smoothly and the girl has done fantastically.  So yes we have seen God move powerfully in answer to prayer.

Sid: I know when I go into a meeting whether it’s a large group or a small group I know when the presence of God is there. At these meetings that you’ve been describing all this week, you know whether the presence of God is there or not.  Do you feel His presence?

Felicity:  That is so important what you’re saying yeah, in fact the presence of God was so strong throughout these meetings with this housing project church that was starting. And it had then sort of spawned off of some other groups into other housing projects that actually led to one of the problems and weaknesses because we didn’t want to leave.  We loved going and just hearing the answers to prayer week by week and we stayed really longer than we should have because our experience tells us that these churches grow best when having help them get on their feet.  We move out of the way so that God continues to use them, I think of one meeting which would be fun to describe. Not that unusual you know a bunch of kids outside where we’re all sharing a meal. You know Hebrew’s talks about not yet resisting to the shedding of blood of whatever.  Well, any way we these kids come in and they’d been having a fight and there is blood all over the place from a bloody nose. So the kids are separated, the offending member is hauled upstairs and is given around sort of chewing out by the young man that Felicity had mentioned James.  At that point James’ mom Rosa goes upstairs and chews out James and says that he’s being unfair on this young man and they get into a shouting match and they come downstairs and the atmosphere is terrible.  And we’re saying “Lord what do we do?”  And it is incredible how God can move in because we sit down, there was perhaps 10 of us sitting around and then all of a sudden the presence of God comes and we’re exploring; you know how do Christians handle disagreements and how do you bring discipline to a young child in a very rough environment where if he says the wrong thing to the wrong person he might find himself shot.  And all sorts of incredible relative things are discussed and the word of God is broken open.  And about 45 minutes of this we bring all the kids back in and we begin worshiping the Lord.  And I remember we’re listening to this joyful noise and noise is probably the right word as everyone is worshiping the Lord.  And we open our eyes and we see these kids who previously had been fighting with their eyes closed and their faces just looking up to heaven and their hands raised and their just worshiping the Lord from the bottom of their hearts and singing at the top of their lungs and even if it’s out of tune you just say to yourself, “Oh Lord, this is church, this is Your presence among Your people and it’s so precious.”

Sid: Now, I find that many churches, or house congregations, get bogged down in fellowship and really don’t reach the unsaved; they just love each other so much and they have so many social events and so many things in they’re busy calendar there is no room for the unsaved.  What would you say to that?

Tony: I would agree with you and I think it’s one of the serious potential weaknesses of any movement like this that is based on small groups.  And one of the things that we feel key is that built into the DNA of these groups is an understanding that Jesus has commanded us to go.  You know our role is to go into all the world and as groups we can go, as individuals we can go, and in fact one of our principals of multiplication is that we’re not looking to invite people to come so that our group gets bigger and bigger until it needs to divide.  No in fact our principal more is that is where we go out into the community and maybe one of our friends, one of our contacts is coming to the Lord, then we break off from the original group and we help them start a new one so that it’s more like a budding strawberry plant.   

Sid: I’ll tell you what we’re out of time right now…