It's Supernatural

Sid: I’ve got a woman that has witnessed with her very eyes, along with her husband, some of the greatest miracles we have ever seen on planet earth. Certainly has seen more miracles than any human alive, her name Francis Hunter. Francis in your book you talk about you talk about a man by the name of Gene Lilly, tell me about him.

Frances: The story of Gene Lilly is an incredible story because he had multiple sclerosis, he had diabetes, he had high triglycerides, he had high cholesterol, and the doctors had told him he was dying. He read…

Sid: Multiple sclerosis… I’m reading multiple sclerosis, paralyzed, diabetic…

Frances: Yes.

Sid: I mean it’s… dying you say?

Frances: Yes.

Sid: Okay and what happened?

Frances: And he read a book “How to Heal the Sick.”

Sid: I know that book we’re offering it this week. (Laughing) What a cue.

Frances: Hallelujah. He read the book and found out where we were going to be, and they brought him there. Now his children had never seen him out of a wheelchair. So when he came to the service we have a tremendous number of words of knowledge, and this happened at Disneyland of all places. We had a lot of word of knowledge, it seemed like it went right down his line, but it jumped over him. So finally I said “Well now if there’s anybody that still needs healing you just come forward.” He crawled on his hands and knees because he left his wheelchair home that night, and he thought “I’m gonna be healed so I won’t need a wheelchair.” He crawled down the aisle, and the ushers picked him and stood him up and I laid hands on him and I commanded all those things to be healed in Jesus name. He fell out under the power of God. While he was under the power of God he began to get feeling in his feet again for the first time in years. So finally the ushers picked him up again, and he crawled back down the aisle. Now I always say to people “I’m not moved by what I see here, feel, taste, touch, or smell. I am moved by what the word of God says. The word of God says ‘When I lay hands on the sick they shall recover.’” I want you to know 24 hours later Gene Lilly was totally healed of everything that was wrong with him.

Sid: What happened to his MS?

Frances: Disappeared.

Sid: What about his diabetes?

Frances: That was gone.

Sid: He was paralyzed, could he walk?

Frances: Yes! That was the first time his children had ever seen him walk. First time they had ever seen him out of a wheelchair. He went to the doctor the next morning, who was not a believer. He said to him “I got healed of diabetes last night” because he took his sugar the next morning and it was perfectly normal. The doctor said “Who healed you?” He said “Jesus” and the doctor said “Jesus who?” (Laughing) So he said “Jesus Christ the Son of God.”  Now that was 34 years ago and Gene Lilly is a Bishop in the Episcopalian Church in the Philippines.

Sid: Tell me in chapter 11 of your book you talk about healing through the use of prayer cloths. You talk about a baby’s grandmother that got ahold of one of your prayer cloths because her grandchild’s head was much larger than it was supposed to be, it was a water head.

Frances: Yes. You know the funny thing is, it’s the most amazing thing what will happen when people will just put their faith out enough to believe. In Acts 19:11, 12 God tells us that “God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul. So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs and aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.” Now we send prayer cloths out of our office every single day. I mean anybody that writes to us that they’re sick we send them back a little prayer cloth and tell them, I always tell them to put it next to their heart. Because every time their heart beats the power of God will go through that little cloth into their bodies. Every once in a while we have these unusual things, and a grandma wrote us from England I guess it was. She was telling us about a grandchild that had a water head, and had no hip sockets. So we prayed over this little prayer cloth and we always send out pink 2×2 little prayer cloths. Now remember it has to go from our office to the post office, to New York, then it flies across the ocean, but it doesn’t lose its power, that’s the thing people have to remember. The power of God is incredible, and of course we always end every pray in the name of Jesus, and the name of Jesus is above every disease that there is. So the grandma happened to be babysitting with the baby when the prayer cloth came. So she put the prayer cloth on the baby’s head and the water head went “Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.” I don’t know how to really make the sound that a water head would make…

Sid: You did a good job.

Frances: Did I do a good job? Okay and the water head totally disappeared. Here’s the interesting thing, 6 weeks later she took her baby back to the clinic and they got so mad at her because they said “This isn’t the same baby you’ve been bringing in here because this baby doesn’t have a water head, he has perfect hip sockets.” All from a little prayer cloth that went across an ocean and was laid on… well the baby has little fists, you know how they sleep with their little fists up?

Sid: Yes.

Frances: She put that little prayer cloth in the inside of that little fist and that baby was totally healed of everything that was wrong with him. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and forever. You know the thing we all need to remember is that is true that name of Jesus carried power 2000 years ago and it carries that much power today.

Sid: Yes Francis, but you’re special you have all sorts of gifts of healing the average person can’t do that. Can they?

Frances: I don’t think I’m special, well I am special because I’m 90 years old and not many people get to be that old. God’s word says “Every believer” it makes no exceptions, “Every believer shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.”

Sid: Listen here’s what I believe, and I’m gonna put you on the spot.

Frances: Okay.

Sid: You put people on the spot so I can do the same with you. Would you pray over every box of books that you send to me?

Frances: Yes.

Sid: And would you pray that the same anointing that was on that prayer cloth for that little child, that baby’s head and the hip socket, would you pray that same healing anointing would be on every one of your books “How to Heal the Sick” that we will then send out to those that are listening?

Frances: You know we’ll do more than you even ask. I won’t pray over every box; we will open every box and lay hands on every book.

SID: Hello. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally, it is naturally supernatural. How would you like to have every one of your prayers answered? I mean all of them. Would you really like that? Would you? Would you like all your prayers answered? Well my guest has gone through and learned how faith operates the hard way. I don’t want any of you to go through what she went through. But as a result of the process, she saw the most amazing supernatural answers to prayer, and through revelation, God has taught her how to teach you to have your prayers answered. You want it? Now I know Jennifer LeClaire as the news editor with a major Christian publication, “Charisma Magazine”. But it wasn’t always that way, Jennifer. In fact, when you were three years old you came from a non-Christian home. You actually could see something. You saw a spirit of fear and it has plagued you, it plagued you most of your life.

JENNIFER: It did. I saw that spirit of fear, Sid, in my bedroom. I didn’t know what it was, of course, at the time, being three years old. My mother thought it was my imagination and would come in with a broom and try to chase it away. But it was. It was a spirit of fear that targeted me from a very early age to destroy my destiny.

SID: Now you had a boyfriend you were living with and you had an altercation, and you called 911, and the police came. And then you decided this is going too far, don’t want to do it. And so the police officer didn’t like what you did. There were some charges filed because you didn’t want to file something against your boyfriend, and they haul you off to jail. But then they release you, but you’re not allowed to change cities without notifying them. And everything is going along fine. You then eventually marry this boyfriend and you’re married, and you have a child. And he says, “I’m going on vacation for two weeks.” And you say, “Okay, bye-bye honey.” And then he never shows up. And so she files for divorce. Her attorney in searching things finds out that the paperwork she was supposed to have filed, which she did, to change cities, since she was on probation, she didn’t do. And then in the middle of the night, minding her own business, the police show up at her door. What happened?

JENNIFER: Yeah, they did. I was falsely accused seven years earlier. And I thought it was cleared. I thought it was done. I had done my paperwork. I had done my duty. And sure enough, the police come knocking on my door in the middle of the night. Now I had hired a defense attorney who told me this is a paperwork issue, don’t worry about it, we’re going to take care of it, and I believed him. Then long not before I had a maid who tried to actually extort money from me. She wanted to be paid more than what I was willing to pay her, and she had seen the paperwork from the attorney, and decided, you know what, if I can’t get what I want from you, I’m going to call the police on you, and that’s what she did.

SID: Okay. So now you’re taken away in the middle of the night. You’re put in jail. You have five years of hard time facing you. You’re worried about what’s going to happen to your three-year-old. Your husband has totally disappeared. And some evangelists come to the jail and they start telling you the Good News. Coming from the background you came from, how could you just simply become a believer? Wasn’t that was called jailhouse religion?

JENNIFER: That’s what a lot of people thought when I got out of jail, Sid. But you know, the testimonies, there’s such power in the testimonies, and the testimonies were so powerful. One of the women had been delivered from heroin. She was a heroin addict. And my best friend at the time was a heroin addict. And when I saw what God had done in this woman’s life it so touched my heart. The Holy Spirit, the conviction fell on me, and I decided, you know what, I’m going all the way with Jesus

SID: You went all the way in the world and now you’re going all the way with Jesus. She gets a Bible and for the first time in her life, she devours the Bible. And then the Spirit of God talks to her and says, you’ll be out in 40 days. Now you tell people you’ll be out in 40. Why was it impossible to be out in 40 days?

JENNIFER: It was impossible. First of all, they denied me bail three times, even with an ankle bracelet and even with home arrest, despite the fact that I was working for a Fortune 500 company at the time. So it was incredible that I couldn’t get out. But nevertheless, the judge was going to be on vacation on the 40^th day. There was no way I could even stand before the judge on day 40.

SID: Well day 40 comes and what happened?

JENNIFER: Day 40 came. I was waiting to see another judge, sitting in a cell by myself for hours, where it seemed like hours. I get a phone call from my attorney and he said, “Jennifer, you don’t have to stand before the judge. This has all been taken care of. Get ready to go home. You’re walking free and clear.”

SID: Forty days! There’s something about the number 40. Okay. But what about all the pills you were on for depression and for anxiety? How many years were you on these pills?

JENNIFER: At that time, about 11 years.

SID: Well what happened with that addiction?

JENNIFER: Well you know, they came to give me my medicine and after I got saved they still wanted me to take these medications, and I said, I don’t need this medicine, Jesus. I had joy in my heart for the first time ever. I was free. And they said, you have to take this medication. You know, we went back and forth. Eventually I decided I’d just better do what they say. So I took it. My body rejected it. They didn’t like what they saw next, and they said, okay, you don’t have to take that medicine any more.

SID: Yes, but what happened to your anxiety and your fear, and depression?

JENNIFER: That all went away. I still had a battle to face with fear, but the depression was gone.

SID: And you didn’t take the pills?

JENNIFER: I never took the pills again.

SID: Not only that, she learned faith to such a degree, and I don’t know how you pulled this off, when they let her out in 40 days, all the records were erased. It’s almost like what the Messiah does to our sins. How did that happen?

JENNIFER: You know, there’s just no record of it.

SID: I tell you what. We’re going to come back and I want you to learn how to pray like she prays. I want you to learn how to exercise faith like she exercised faith. Be right back.

Sid: My guest is Bill Morford I’m speaking to him at his home Lexington, South Carolina. Several years ago I got ahold of his Bible translation it is called “The Power New Testament” subtitled “Revealing Jewish Roots.”  When I saw that he had an explanation for such things as the Jewish roots, the Jewish idioms, the Jewish customs, even the tenses of the language that I had never seen in any other Bible before. It is like when the New Testament was written it was written in a Jewish land for Jewish people, and there was no need for explanation of these idioms; no need for explanation of these customs because all of the Jewish people that heard these letters that were read to them from congregation to congregation they understood it. Today a lot of the culture of Christianity has distorted the original meaning of the words in the New Testament. So Bill I am so grateful to the Lord that you invested your life in this “Power New Testament.” Out of curiosity what do you mean by the “Power New Testament?”

Bill: When I was translating Greek, when I was studying Greek, I saw that in the New Testament that the Greek had a lot of power. It was actually a good language for the Jewish authors to use, not as good as Hebrew but it could be just as powerful as Hebrew. But the power was not translated by the scholars that do our ordinary translation. I had no idea that I would eventually publish, but it just irritated me whenever I ministered. I would use the power and bring out the power that the authors had put into the New Testament. So when the Lord told me to get serious with it, and I knew I was going to publish I just translated literally what the authors had written. They often said things like “You must do this immediately,” or “You must continually do this.” Jesus gave stern rebukes at times. It’s just awesome the power that’s in there that’s just missed.

Sid: There are so many things we want to discuss that each one of these things… This is the amazing thing to me Bill, each one of the points that we’ll be discussing this week is enough to change someone’s destiny. For instance, one of my favorite words that you translate, and the way you translate it is the Greek word for “sickness.” Why did you translate that “evil” and perhaps you can give me a scripture where it is used?

Bill: Here’s an example of it in Matthew 4:24, “And His reputation spread through all Syria, and they brought to Him all those having various evils and various diseases, and being tormented and possessed by demons, and being moonstruck, and paralytics, and He healed them.” The word there translated “evils” is translated “sickness” in most translations.

Sid: Okay this is a good point to find out the revelation that God gave you personally about healings some 25 or more years ago. Tell me about that.

Bill: Well it was interesting He forced it on me, of course I believed in it, but it was night at 3:00 in the morning. One of my sons and I were driving back from New England to South Carolina at 3:00 in the morning on a Pennsylvania interstate that was really torn up, and it was shaking the car. The right lane was blocked off for resurfacing, my son was asleep in the backseat. A semi came up right on my back bumper with those big headlights shining and I had a pounding headache that wouldn’t quit. Nowhere to go couldn’t even slow down, so I cried out to Jesus and the headache vanished on the spot. Within a minute it came back and I just said “Oh no, oh no Jesus come back” and the headache left, and I haven’t had a headache since.

Sid: What about other sickness with you?

Bill: None, I haven’t had a sore throat, upset stomach…

Sid: Bill how old are you?

Bill: I’m 75.

Sid: And you’re telling me that you have not had to battle even diseases, and headaches, and stomachaches for how many years?

Bill: Well more than 25 even for headaches. My last prescription was given in 1956.

Sid: Hmm.  So you must have some great insight into healing, but to me once you realize that sickness and disease is evil, and evil doesn’t come from God, I imagine that alone helps you resist.

Bill: It sure does.

Sid: Is there any other insight that comes to mind about healing that has helped you remain in divine health?

Bill: No I’m just determined that he’s not gonna do it. If I get sniffles or something before I went to bed I rebuke it. Haven’t had any discomfort and no problem at night with a stuffy nose in the winter, or whatever.

Sid: Now I love your translation. I’m looking here at Matthew 5:1 many call it the Beatitudes, and you say “Blessed.” Your footnote here says “The Greek word translated “blessed” throughout the Beatitudes is “makarios,” and it means ‘Blessed and happy, or the repentant.’” Where did you get the word repentant?

Bill: That’s a Hebrew idiom that’s in there. That’s the poor in spirit.

Sid: I’ve heard so many people try to explain what that means, but it’s impossible to explain what that means if you don’t know the Hebrew idiom.

Bill: That’s right. I don’t know of any translation that translates the Hebrew idioms in there.

Sid: Okay, we were talking earlier about the title of your New Testament called “The Power New Testament.”  Give me an example of that.

Bill: Okay, Mark 11:23 is one of my favorites.

Sid: That’s one of my favorites too. I’m so glad you’re gonna read that. Here by the way I’ve got a copy, and those that are listening will have one very soon, but until you do I’m gonna turn to follow you that because I mean I have preached from your translation of this. Would you read that for our audience?

Bill: I surely will. “Truly I say to you that whoever would say to this mountain. ‘You must immediately be removed and you must immediately be cast into the sea,’ and would not doubt in his heart but would believe that what he is say is happening, it will be to him. Because of this I say to you, you must continually pray for everything, then for whatever you are asking, believe that you have taken it, and it will be there for you.”

Sid: You know the word that really gets me is when you say “believe that you have taken it.” I have actually preached in healing meetings I want you to reach into that invisible world for your healing, for whatever you need and just take it, grab it. I mean is that the way the Greek expresses it?

Bill: It is. It’s take and our polite translators say “receive” instead of “take.” See Jesus said, He didn’t say “Receive the Holy Spirit,” He said “Take the Holy Spirit.” We’re are supposed to be eager for all of the things of God, and just reach out and take it.

Sid: Let me tell you, I mean there’s just so much were gonnahave to talk about this week. I’ll tell you another favorite in your translation of mine that has opened… Every one of these nuggets Mishpochah open up a whole new realm of understanding from the idioms to the power behind these words, to the tenses, to the Hebrew roots, but in Matthew 18:18 let me read Bill’s translation “Truly I say to you: whatever you would bind upon” then in the footnote you explain “To bind is a Hebrew idiom meaning to forbid. Binding and losing refer specifically to the dietary, Sabbath, and other regulations, including civil law, as well as to spiritual things.” So “Truly I say to you: whatever you forbid upon the Earth will already have been forbidden in heaven with ongoing effect.” In other words, when the Lord prayed “Thy kingdom come thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven” it’s already been done in Heaven, that’s what this translation is telling me Bill.

Bill: Right.

SID: Sid Roth here with Steve Solomon. So what happens when a Jewish guy that’s deeply involved in mysticism, the occult, new age, trying to find what were you trying to find, what were you searching for Steve?

STEVE: You know there had to be more to life than just what I was living, there was something out there and I had, there was something drawing me to something, there had to be something more.

SID: All right , you asked two questions, repeat the questions and tell me what happened. Steve, okay, “Is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, are you real, are you out there?” “Is Jesus Christ who he says he is?” Suddenly, remember now for months I had been trying to find a supernatural experience, trying to have something happen, and nothing worked. Suddenly when I asked those two questions simultaneously, I know now what it was, I felt myself lifted out of my body, I felt myself, I know now my soul lifted out, and I saw simultaneously, now the room is dark, all the lights are out, a ball of fire, it looked just like the setting sun, amber in color, real bright, and a right hand came out from the center of this fire across the room, probably about forty feet away, across the room, touched me on my head, pushed my head straight back, and then I heard an audible voice and He said, “Yes I am, what you are doing is wrong, stop and follow Me.”

SID: Well did you just say, ignore it or what did you do with this.

STEVE: No, I was stunned. Two things, I didn’t know who to tell, I knew that I asked if God was alive, the God of my fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, my forefathers, and is Jesus Christ is who he says he is. I got one, “Yes I am, stop what you are doing, and follow me.” I totally stopped what I was doing, all the trying to meditate and all that stuff, I totally stopped, I went home, I didn’t tell anyone because, number one I didn’t know of any Jews who believed in Jesus of Nazareth as being the Son of God, I knew none. I never heard of this that any Jews did believe. And my wife had purchased a Bible when we were going through our marital problems, she had purchased a Bible and so secretly I would take her Bible and start reading the Bible, Old and New Testament behind her back for a few weeks and it was phenomenal. The words just like they were alive, they came off the page. You know I was raised you know and we in Massachusetts there were Jewish sections and Irish sections, and my Irish friends were named John and Matthew you see, and Mark, I thought those were Irish names, you know. They are Jewish names. You know guys in the New Testament like Matthew, you know, Mark, John, all these guys were Jews, and the word of God came alive to me Sid. I read everything, it was phenomenal.

SID: Well did you leave your wife anyway?

STEVE: No, I started preaching to my wife a couple of weeks later. I said you know Sid How did she take this?

STEVE: Not good at first, I said Diane we need to start living for the Lord, and she said, and she said to herself, what does this Jew know about my Jesus anyway? And so she found out that I knew more than what she, you know I told her, I have had an experience with Jesus, she came back to the Lord and the first thing the Lord did, the first thing, he gave us a phenomenal love for each other which stays even to this day and it has been thirty eight years.

SID: A funny story wit your mother-in-law, tell me that?

STEVE: Well, you know my mother-in-law, you know she went to the Four Square Church in Orlando, that’s where Diane got saved, in Orlando, and my mother-in-law was a life-long charter member of that church, she got saved after Diane went to that church as a child with a neighbor, now listen, and once in a while she would say, now Steve, Jesus is your Messiah, and it just wouldn’t mean anything to me, you know, and then she would turn to Diane and go, now Diane you know better, you are a backslider and you know better, but the first person I publicly told other than my wife, we would have dinner at my mother-in-laws house all the time, and then one night we left, I walked back into the door and said Ma I want to tell you something and she goes what? I said Jesus is who you say he is. And I turned around and walked out and she was stunned. And she came to find out that I was; that I had really had an experience with God.

SID: Talk about people being happy, can you imagine how happy his mother-in-law was, how happy his wife is now, how happy he is, how happy his children are, I mean his whole life was transformed, you want to know what happy is? The happiest music I have ever heard is on this CD, River Walk DNA, and there is a song, it is my favorite, it is called River of Life, do you like that?

STEVE: I love it.

SID: Because wherever the river goes, There is healing, let’s hear a selection.

§ music § All right, all right, all right Here we go § If you want to really get happy § § If you want to find yourself a friend § § Let go jump into the river § § For the river is where new life begins § § Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh § § If you want to really get happy § § If you want to find yourself a friend § § Let go jump into the river § § For the river is where new life begins § § If you will search for the river of life, § § Just raise your hands and shout § § If you will search for the river of life § § I’m going to take you to the river § § The river of life § § To the river, the river of life § § I’m going to take you to the river § § The river of life § § music § § All my friends are swimming in this river § § All my friends are swimming in this river §

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here, welcome to my world where it is naturally supernatural. I don’t know about you but I have been breathing the air of heaven and I love that atmosphere. What happens when a Jewish doctor has an incurable illness staring him in the face and the mother comes in and says, “A miracle happened, my son is healed.” And this Jewish doctor says, yet with his own words, we have it on tape we will let you view it in just a couple of minutes, he says, “This is a miracle.” Karen, when you had James he was a healthy little boy the first fifteen months or so, tell me about him.

KAREN: Oh he was wonderful; he was born right on time, happy and healthy, he was one of those children you could just pass to anybody, very calm, everything was perfect, he was right on track.

SID: But at eighteen months something very weird started happening.

KAREN: I mean very weird happened, we had taken him for his well check and literally he started running to the same place in the hall and he would stand backwards against the wall and slam his head back and forth into the sheetrock and I thought I don’t know, maybe this is what little boys do, maybe this is the beginning of the terrible twos but after about a month he literally with his head broke the sheetrock open, there was a hole in the sheetrock.

SID: But then he started doing things even worse bizarre such as eating the sheetrock.

KAREN: Absolutely, he would start picking away the sheetrock, he started eating the rubber backing off of our bathroom rugs, he ate the rubber lining out of the door of our cars.

SID: Now she is not just talking about something, I have got the bills here; there is an eighteen hundred and fifty dollar bill for sheetrock repair.

KAREN: Right.

SID: He would just bash his head in the wall?

KAREN: Yes.

SID: To get the sheetrock to eat it?

KAREN: Yes, he was obsessed with putting things in his mouth and chewing, he would eat a flip-flop off your shoe, he was eating bark off of a tree, and he was just obsessed with putting stuff in his mouth and eating it, things that weren’t food.

SID: The doctors finally diagnosed his condition, what was it?

KAREN: It was classically autistic, there are sixteen markers that make you autistic and he had
all but one of them.

SID: What is the cure rate for autism?

KAREN: Oh there is no cure, it is incurable, there is no treatment and there is no hope and you have it forever.

SID: And how prevalent is it in society?

KAREN: It is what I would call pandemic, it is one in a hundred and fifty births.

SID: On and hundred and fifty births?

KAREN: One in one fifty, in some cities it is as high as one in ninety-eight births.

SID: So how did you cope with this situation?

KAREN: I coped in every way wrong, I coped with drinking and eating and overworking, I couldn’t believe I was in this long nightmare, this was not what I prayed for, this is not what I wanted, I wanted a little boy to be the captain of the football team and a daughter that would be the cheerleader, I didn’t want this rabid child in my house with no way to control him and any professional that we went to doctors, specialists, they all said the same thing, this is what he has, there is no treatment, there is no cure, he will always be like this and at one point you will have to put him in a home.

SID: Now something good came into your life, I mean the way it was headed was pretty bad, I mean did you really face the fact that you would have to intuitionalism your son someday?

KAREN: It took me a long time to come to terms with that but I think women instinctively know that things are getting better or worse and because he was so big for his age I knew that I couldn’t handle him because when he got upset his rage was off the charts, he could not be controlled. When he was little you could give him a toy or redirect, but as he got to be four and five, he was much older and we had another child and he was beginning to be of a danger to her and so I knew that my options were limited and it was where I couldn’t keep him, I loved my child, I adored him but I had no idea what to do with him and I knew that we would have to put him in a home.

SID: So you were desperately.

KAREN: Absolutely.

SID: You turned to drink. You were so desperate you even went to a prayer group that helped you a little bit, what did they do for you?

KAREN: Yes, we were directed by a friend of ours to a deliverance team called Gospel Revelation Ministries and I signed up for personal deliverance, I didn’t know what that was, I grew up in a denominational church, but I knew that I needed to do what ever I needed to do to get to be the person that God wanted me to be so I could raise this handicapped child, so I thought this is what God wants me to do, he wants me to be this great handicapped mother and I am going to raise this child, then that’s what I will do. So I went through deliverance where it identifies what is operational in you life, where there had been some curses, things that happened to me, by other people, by my own actions and words and I just, God set me free from all the things that were binding me up and I was going to be able now to raise this child that God had given me.

SID: Now he also gave you direction on some things to do at home to benefit your son.

KAREN: Absolutely, in the beginning it wasn’t time for, God didn’t say it was time to take James through deliverance initially, but they did tell us to always play praise music in his room continually, praise music is something the enemy cannot stay in the presence of, and that immediately changed his temperaments, I believe our children are tortured the most at night when they sleep, and also to anoint him with oil and pray over him and seal this vessel that nothing could attack him or torture him while he slept, and that initially really changed him.

SID: And then one day they said something that staggered you about James your son.

KAREN: Yes, they said they believed they could take James through deliverance for autism. And I said, “Oh, that’s not possible, if that was possible it would be on national TV shows, it would be on the news, nobody is ever healed of autism.” And they said that is what the Lord said. So who am I to argue with the Lord? And so in January of 2000, they called and they said God said it is time now. And I said time for what? And they said to take James through deliverance for autism so he could be completely healed.

SID: Now was you faith level that something good was going to happen or were you still pretty skeptical?

KAREN: My faith level was that of my experiences, my experiences were, I had been in churches, we had been on staff at churches, my experiences were that most of the Christians I knew were sad, unwell and disappointed in their whole life, I didn’t know Christians that walked in freedom, wholeness and wellness, but I had a little tiny glimmer of hope that just maybe, not for me, but maybe for this boy, that God would show up and do what he said he would do.

SID: Okay let’s find out what happens when they drag James for a deliverance session and I mean, this really should be a movie Karen, you know